Why doesn't Starmer hold another referendum?

Thank you Casdon for pointing out the existing intentions of our government.

Yes, thanks Casdon.
'Reduce barriers to trade', what's wrong with that?

I think we should press forwards and not keep harping on about Brexit. And keep Keir Starmer, there is no decent replacement for him and he is, I think, an ethical man at least.

We could attempt to keep the bits of BREXIT that have worked, if someone would tell us what they are.

Maremia

Yes, thanks Casdon.
'Reduce barriers to trade', what's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with that but there was more to the EU than just trade.

Maremia

keepingquiet, you have my vote.

And mine.

I support Starmer!

Cameron had originally said he would stay whatever the result but he very quickly legged it when he realised he had read the country very wrong.
Are we supposed to have referendums until Remain win?

I don't think Cameron read the country wrong. Just that at the time there were constant demands for a referendum. He didn't want to leave the EU at all. Lots of Conservatives were pro EU. Same with Labour . Some for, some against. Jeremy Corbyn was very anti EU.

The calls to leave the EU had been ongoing for decades.

As for Starmer, the longer he stays the more he's ruining the Labour Party. And his politicial opponents will be more than happy to watch him do it.

If Sir Keir Starmer wants to turn the Labour Party around he needs to ask and listen to those who voted Reform (not me). Find out why they won so many seats and appealed to so many voters. Holding another referendum would alienate him even further, in my humble opinion. Many people are more concerned with mountains of fly-tipped waste, a bloated benefits system, shoplifting rife, limited opportunities for the 18-25 age group, filthy waterways, the lack of affordable homes, streets still unsafe for women and the inefficiency of public transport in addition to the major concerns of the NHS, Policing, immigration and the cost of living. Sir Keir has more than enough here without a referendum.

We are a representative democracy - we elect MPs and their job is to do the research and weigh things up, including what we as voters tell them, and then vote in parliament. We do not govern by snap shot referendums - if Boris had decided to support Remain, it might well have led to a different result. Too dependent on public mood of the day and undermines parliamentary democracy. This is not perfect! But our best option.

REKA

I don't think Cameron read the country wrong. Just that at the time there were constant demands for a referendum. He didn't want to leave the EU at all. Lots of Conservatives were pro EU. Same with Labour . Some for, some against. Jeremy Corbyn was very anti EU.

The calls to leave the EU had been ongoing for decades.

As for Starmer, the longer he stays the more he's ruining the Labour Party. And his politicial opponents will be more than happy to watch him do it.

Cameron called the referendum to try to halt the rise of Farage and some of his own backbenchers who wanted out of Europe. He was sure Remain would win and shut his detractors up.

Sarnia

Cameron had originally said he would stay whatever the result but he very quickly legged it when he realised he had read the country very wrong.
Are we supposed to have referendums until Remain win?

I don’t think he read the country wrong, I think he mounted a weak stay campaign, and failed to recognise how the leave campaigners would galvanise their supporters to vote through their campaign.

Oldnproud

Has Starmer actually said that he will "reverse Brexit", ie., rejoin the EU?
All I have heard is about forging closer links, which is a very different, sensible, idea.
I doubt that the EU would ever let us rejoin under terms that would be acceptable to us anyway.

So no, I don't think that Starmer is proposing anything that remotely requires a referendum.

Pure scaremongering by the other parties and the media outlets that support them, IMO.

We are definitely not rejoining, no govt would do that now, though we did enter the Common Market with no “vote”, the one came a couple years later on whether to stay or or not and it was a “yes”.

All Starmer is doing is seeking closer relations with the EU for both trade and other reasons.

It makes utter sense and they ate our closest allies and we are still part of Europe.

We have a very fragile economy, now or not the time to spread unfounded rumours, gossip or scaremongering.

This is what Starmer is currently negotiating with the EU:
Closer economic alignment with EU rules in sectors like chemicals, cars and pharmaceuticals MSN
• Rejoining Erasmus+ (already agreed for 2027–28) Institute fo...
• A youth mobility scheme and other selective cooperation agreements
• Dynamic alignment with some EU regulations to reduce trade friction and boost growth
• Deeper defence and security ties, including joining the EU’s Ukraine loan scheme

pea007

This is what Starmer is currently negotiating with the EU:
Closer economic alignment with EU rules in sectors like chemicals, cars and pharmaceuticals MSN
• Rejoining Erasmus+ (already agreed for 2027–28) Institute fo...
• A youth mobility scheme and other selective cooperation agreements
• Dynamic alignment with some EU regulations to reduce trade friction and boost growth
• Deeper defence and security ties, including joining the EU’s Ukraine loan scheme

All that seems sensible and mutually beneficial to both sides.

Casdon I agree. In fact I don’t even remember the stuff said for “remain”, I simply remember seeing Farage a lot, some crap from Johnson about bendy bananas, crabmeat and other edibles, and Farage’s sticking huge banners on the outside of buses about the NHS gains, oh and also very thinly veiled info re stopping migrants but not specifically EU migrants!

Oh Casdon, it was such a weak campaign.

Casdon

Sarnia

Cameron had originally said he would stay whatever the result but he very quickly legged it when he realised he had read the country very wrong.
Are we supposed to have referendums until Remain win?

I don’t think he read the country wrong, I think he mounted a weak stay campaign, and failed to recognise how the leave campaigners would galvanise their supporters to vote through their campaign.

He was a weak PM who didn't understand the ramications of his actions.

He failed to put guidelines in place, especially as regards the proportion of the vote needed to carry the outcome.

If the vote had been set at a 55% majority we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.

He set no plan in place for a majority Leave vote, no timeline which led to the debacle of the deal/no deal farago that eventually led to the worst outcome for us, not Europe.

The current mess we're in whilst not totally to be left at Cameron's door- (Farage as to be held to account too) he was foolish and naive and a bad politician. Added to that was the pact he had made with the Lib Dems in order to forn a government.

Add to that Osborne and his austerity measures...

Politics since 2010 has been a constant attempt to re-set the economy since the financial crash of 2008, and leaving Europe was the worst step we could have made.

We are still playing catch-up 18 years later, an entire generation.

People need to begin studying history...and I don't mean the one to do with flags and street parties.

ronib

So is it better that Brexit is reversed without a referendum? What price democracy?

Referenda ave never been part of British Democracy. The Brexit referendum was 11 years ago. The world we live in has changed beyond recognition and we have regular elections to vote for the governments we want, and to whom we delegate the responibility of making decisions on our behalf. if we do not like them we vote them out.

Why should we keep second guessing them by having referenda? If we have a referendum on our relations with the EU, what justification is there for not having it on other subjects, what the school curriculum should be, who should ualify for different types of benefit, whether we should have an army or not,

The 2015 referendum was an aberration. It undermined government, damaged our economy and we are now poorer as a result. It fractured politics and led to the recent local elections that should primarily have been about local issues becoming primarily a vote of confidence in the current government.

Sarnia

REKA

I don't think Cameron read the country wrong. Just that at the time there were constant demands for a referendum. He didn't want to leave the EU at all. Lots of Conservatives were pro EU. Same with Labour . Some for, some against. Jeremy Corbyn was very anti EU.

The calls to leave the EU had been ongoing for decades.

As for Starmer, the longer he stays the more he's ruining the Labour Party. And his politicial opponents will be more than happy to watch him do it.

Cameron called the referendum to try to halt the rise of Farage and some of his own backbenchers who wanted out of Europe. He was sure Remain would win and shut his detractors up.

And how wrong he was!
Politicians rarely seem to understand what the man on the Clapham ( or anywhere else) omnibus really wants.

Actually I understand why a referendum was needed on leaving the EU as there had been one to go into the EU in the first place.Why should such an important thing be just left to a political party?

Cossy

Casdon I agree. In fact I don’t even remember the stuff said for “remain”, I simply remember seeing Farage a lot, some crap from Johnson about bendy bananas, crabmeat and other edibles, and Farage’s sticking huge banners on the outside of buses about the NHS gains, oh and also very thinly veiled info re stopping migrants but not specifically EU migrants!

I don't think Farage was responsible for the banners on buses, but he was responsible for that disgusting anti-migrant Breaking Point poster.

Oreo

Actually I understand why a referendum was needed on leaving the EU as there had been one to go into the EU in the first place.Why should such an important thing be just left to a political party?

Politics doesn't work like that. If Cameron had had any cajones, he could have fought off the criticisms, which mainly came within his own party.

mum2three

I know the result is not legally binding but Cameron honoured the result of the last one, and other politicians have acknowledged it. Starmer is so arrogant. He thinks he can forge ahead and reverse Brexit without consulting the British people. Jo Swinson, Anna Soubri, and various others vowed to do the same. Look what happened to them!
Starmer should at least have the courtesy to ask us how we feel. And he wonders why so many people voted Reform.

Anna left the Conservative Party because, having worked with Boris Johnson she could see how awful he was and refused to serve under him.