Reform UK claims it would renegotiate Brexit deal to stop resident foreign students accessing UK student loan system

Goodness, David, you do seem to have negative views about about schools and universities. I do not share your views on this, as a retired teacher, university lecturer, school governor, parent and grandparent. I see these establishments as working with the next generation of parents, citizens, voters, and workers.
The "adult world" is a broad church, and surely should not be defined purely as a place " where you have to justify your wages by work alone ".

Somewhat patronising reply, methinks.

"When I worked as an Oxford university administrator, one of my responsibilities at the College where I worked was to keeps tabs on overseas students and ensure they attended a certain number of tutorials and lectures each term."

You and your children had all the advantages, you know people you know the system, most children dont have that advantage, great well done you.
Many dont have parents that are good role models, schools do not prepare children for the adult world where you have to justify your wages by work done.

If you loan money, then claim it back with interest, then that is profit, not loss.
I understand that some loans are not paid back, for a variety of reasons,, but that applies to all loans, not merely student ones.

Reform type parties hate
intellectuals don't they?

.. the government doesn’t have any money of its own ...

The goverment can and does create whatever money it wants to. It owns the Bank of England.

Once you can undertand this you no longer get bogged down in this notion that one person's tax is paying for another person's free ride.

As Richard Murphy says: The question is never can we afford it. The question is why aren't we chosing to do it?

www.youtube.com/shorts/A_K6VoaZdlw

And the answer in Reform's case is always rooted in their deep xenophobia this time being uttered by Braverman, daughter of migrants and herself a beneficiary of the Erasmus programme.

Oreo

I don’t think that matters twaddle it would be less money spent which is paid for by the tax payers here, the government doesn’t have any money of its own.

Well, no it wouldn't. The Students Loan Company makes a profit. There are two possible outcomes. Firstly, the university places might be taken up by other applicants - people who had been born in the UK - who would apply for loans and be granted them, so there would be no "saving". The second possibility is that nobody applied for the excess places. In that case, the eventual income of the Students Loan Company would decrease, as fewer people would owe it money.

It's a daft idea, designed to appeal to xenophobic bigots, which wouldn't even achieve anything. (Surprised it hasn't been plastered on the side of a red bus somewhere!)

I don’t think that matters twaddle it would be less money spent which is paid for by the tax payers here, the government doesn’t have any money of its own.

LemonJam

Where exactly does the £4billion pound saving a year come from?

I've been trying to work that one out. The figures don't add up.

David49

"I do think you’re a little harsh about what you consider “wasted” degrees, lots of very academic people do degrees, not knowing what jobs they finally want to do, and I don’t think education, at whatever level is wasted, and it’s no longer really much funded by the state, so why not!"

Why Not ?

Because it's a waste of time and money for the student and a dreadful waste of money for the government, the plan never did work and never will.

.

I was about to answer the ‘why not’ but see that you got there before me.

Gran22boys

Oreo

4 billion that could be used towards better things?I see nothing wrong with this policy at all.
Loans for students cost a fortune and very many are never paid back even from British students.
Freebies in very many areas are a big part of the draw towards our shores.

Quite right. (I usually find myself agreeing with you Oreo.)

Nice 😊

Students loans are only paid back when the ex student is earning a particular amount. My daughter has paid her student loan back already. Younger son who went on to do a Masters and a PhD only recently started paying his undergraduate degree loan back. Incidentally, daughter’s degree is in Theology - she works for NHS England. Younger son’s first degree was in Art History, his doctorate in Psychosocial Studies. He is a Civil Servant. However, elder son was entirely self-funding and his Masters suits his profession.

When I worked as an Oxford university administrator, one of my responsibilities at the College where I worked was to keeps tabs on overseas students and ensure they attended a certain number of tutorials and lectures each term.

Where exactly does the £4billion pound saving a year come from?

Oreo

4 billion that could be used towards better things?I see nothing wrong with this policy at all.
Loans for students cost a fortune and very many are never paid back even from British students.
Freebies in very many areas are a big part of the draw towards our shores.

Quite right. (I usually find myself agreeing with you Oreo.)

"I do think you’re a little harsh about what you consider “wasted” degrees, lots of very academic people do degrees, not knowing what jobs they finally want to do, and I don’t think education, at whatever level is wasted, and it’s no longer really much funded by the state, so why not!"

Why Not ?

Because it's a waste of time and money for the student and a dreadful waste of money for the government, the plan never did work and never will.

.

Oreo

Feeback? I simply don’t agree with you.Shop work is what a lot of graduates from former Poly’s end up doing, no need for a degree or A levels.
From the Blair years onwards too many teenagers have been badly advised and let down by being encouraged into University when they simply weren’t up to it.It was one of Blair’s ideas that 50% of school leavers should go onto Uni’s.
A ridiculous percentage.

In this Oreo I completely agree! I thought the old system of having specific colleges teaching skills for work and then Universities for those wanting or able to have more academic teaching, worked extremely well, as did the old “technical colleges”. I just find it amazing frankly that no govts appear to forward plan for professionals, surely they must have 5 & 10 year plans for ensuring we have enough nurses/doctors/teachers/dentists/plumbers/electricians and other required skill sets? It’s seems not!

Btw my DS attended Oxford Brooks (a former poly) and studied a combined degree of Law & Psychology and luckily he’s never had to work in a shop! (Not that’s there’s anything at all wrong with working in a shop, we’d be in a bad way if there were no shops!)

I do think you’re a little harsh about what you consider “wasted” degrees, lots of very academic people do degrees, not knowing what jobs they finally want to do, and I don’t think education, at whatever level is wasted, and it’s no longer really much funded by the state, so why not!

3 out 5, of our adult children chose not to carry on into higher education, all of them have work, ironically the two with good degrees earn less than two of their siblings who went straight into work at 18, one into banking and one into the Civil Service, our youngest has his own band and is living his best life at 23, he’s very creative and not at all academic. Horses for courses. (He will never make “good money”), but I think he’ll make enough to get by!

Don't understand the bit about 'foreign students from other countries'.
Don't all foreign people come from other countries?

kjmpde

My understanding is that foreign students actually help fund universities and the restriction on the numbers has meant that
educational establishments are struggling

Most importantly for those who are tempted by voting for Reform - if GB is taken out of the ECHR and Reform follows through with its policy of cancelling the Equalities Act that the most vulnerable in society will suffer. You have been warned

The former Polytechnics that taught- wait for it - Technical Skills, moved up market and became second rate universities, teaching whatever the student fancied at whatever level because it meant bums on seats.
It was a big increase in status and obviously funding, the government of the day got that badly wrong, because jobs did not follow the qualifications. Instead to fill skill shortages overseas workers were recruited, because the courses chosen were not wanted by employers

Sueinkent

Anything to prevent them having to tax the rich.

The rich are taxed.

I wouldn’t be tempted to vote for Reform, but in the event of them power sharing with the Conservatives ( the only way they could get the numbers to form a government) and this policy was enacted then I wouldn’t grumble about it.

Anything to prevent them having to tax the rich.

kjmpde

My understanding is that foreign students actually help fund universities and the restriction on the numbers has meant that
educational establishments are struggling

Most importantly for those who are tempted by voting for Reform - if GB is taken out of the ECHR and Reform follows through with its policy of cancelling the Equalities Act that the most vulnerable in society will suffer. You have been warned

Yes you’re correct but only foreign students from * other* countries coming to University here in the UK.

Feeback? I simply don’t agree with you.Shop work is what a lot of graduates from former Poly’s end up doing, no need for a degree or A levels.
From the Blair years onwards too many teenagers have been badly advised and let down by being encouraged into University when they simply weren’t up to it.It was one of Blair’s ideas that 50% of school leavers should go onto Uni’s.
A ridiculous percentage.

My understanding is that foreign students actually help fund universities and the restriction on the numbers has meant that
educational establishments are struggling

Most importantly for those who are tempted by voting for Reform - if GB is taken out of the ECHR and Reform follows through with its policy of cancelling the Equalities Act that the most vulnerable in society will suffer. You have been warned

Oreo

Cossy your over long and rude rant at me shows me how very little you seem to know.
As for my comment ‘good salaries’ there’s nothing incorrect or wrong in that, it’s what every graduate hopes for.
Of course I know that poly’s were turned into universities btw.
Far too many students now end up unemployed or doing shop work that’s not well paid or applying for over 300 jobs with no luck as a graduate speaking on Radio 4 told the presenter recently.

How about

Apologies if you found it rude, I’m well aware of how difficult some graduates find it to get work, but many graduates do still have to start fairly low level in company roles, but are likely to go in at a higher salary than a non-grad, notwithstanding that they still have to learn their job role and the business, neither of which will have been learned at University.

Grads have found it difficult to get into their first role for decades, at the salary they appear to feel they warrant.

Just to be clear, my “overlong and rude rant” simply addressed some of the points you raised.

Why your obsession with low paid shop work?

My DiL graduated from a great Uni, her degree was biology related, her Masters was also biology related. She had no issues finding work in her related degree area, research, however despite her relevant degree in a strong subject, research is often very badly paid. After a few years, whilst still working, she completed a coding course and now earns more than twice her previous salary!

It’s not all “lowly” jobs which are low paid.

But thank you for feedback 🙂