Mandelson failed security vetting. Starmer says he didn’t know

One of few good decisions made by the Conservative Party ( imo) in recent years was to give Cameron the position of foreign Secretary because of his experience which I am sure was why they took the risk with Mandelson as ambassador.

Boris followed by Lix Truss- sorry

Conservative PM Cameron resigned, and paved the way for Teresa May- 2016-2019, not elected by the public. She was internally deposed, followed by Boris Johnston, 2019 to 2022. He was deposed followed by Teresa May ( not elected by the public and lasted 5 weeks) the Rishi Sunak ( not elected by the public and he called an early election) 2022-2024.

That wreaked havoc on the Conservative Party, the public's trust and they lost the 2024 General Election with one of the lowest, if not the lowest Conservative vote share in history. Clearly such PM changes are not good for the country and not liked by the general public.

There can be little doubt that Starmer made a mistake (in hindsight/bad judgement call) appointing Peter M, for which he has apologised. It has not be proved he lied or mis led Parliament, to my knowledge. Starmer deciding to sack Olly Robbins for his failing/mistakes, as perceived by Starmer that is, was the wrong call. Also it does not sit well that Starmer believes he should "fight on" and he gives mixed messages over his perceptions about accountability. That is why was Olly Robbins sacked for his perceived mistakes/failings- but not Starmer himself?

Having said all that, the amount of time and media coverage devoted to this sad state of affairs, in context of cost of living crisis, geopolitical world events and wars and consequent impact on the price of oil and diplomatic relationships- seems somewhat disproportionate.

Further, Peter M's appointment did not cost the public £billions( eg as in the Conservative Government's PPE "VIP' lane fiasco, Liz Truss's market havoc that added £100s pounds per month to many paying their mortgages, Referendum that lead to Brexit decision and its consequent high adverse outcomes such that well over half the population feel we should never have voted to leave). Peter M's appointment did not lead to any controversy, problems, adverse diplomatic relationship outcomes when he was in post during his term as US Ambassador. Any recent US/UK relationship decline, after PM was sacked- has been wreaked by Trump, not Peter M and not only on the UK.

twaddle

nanna8

I think now that the Labour Party definitely needs a new leader because things have just gone too far. If they change leadership it just might save them. They have a long and proud history and it would be tragic if they go under. The current leader just doesn’t cut it and never has. He is not a safe pair of hands, quite the reverse. Just hope someone steps up and rebuilds the confidence they deserve.

Why have things gone too far?

nanna8.How long would it take a new leader to establish the sort of relationship that Starmer has with other world leaders? What exactly do you want the new leader to do that Starmer isn’t? Who do you want to replace him??? Didn’t you want us to have a leader like Trump at one time ( apologies if my memory is incorrect…)

nanna8

I think now that the Labour Party definitely needs a new leader because things have just gone too far. If they change leadership it just might save them. They have a long and proud history and it would be tragic if they go under. The current leader just doesn’t cut it and never has. He is not a safe pair of hands, quite the reverse. Just hope someone steps up and rebuilds the confidence they deserve.

Why have things gone too far?

eazybee

You can blame the headlines in the right-wing newspapers all you like, but Starmer is the author of his own misfortune: simply a painful lack of ability. Over-promoted during his legal career, seen as an escape from Jeremy Corbyn with help from Petey, he is now a laughing stock, (see Have I Got News etc). Very hard to come back after that, compounded by his disastrous performance in the House last week.

That's not directly related to his not knowing about Mandelson's security vetting. What's happening is that many of those people who have a negative opinion of Starmer are picking on this as another stick to beat him.

Yes, I do know what the headlines have been writing about him from the day Labour won the election.

You can blame the headlines in the right-wing newspapers all you like, but Starmer is the author of his own misfortune: simply a painful lack of ability. Over-promoted during his legal career, seen as an escape from Jeremy Corbyn with help from Petey, he is now a laughing stock, (see Have I Got News etc). Very hard to come back after that, compounded by his disastrous performance in the House last week.

I think now that the Labour Party definitely needs a new leader because things have just gone too far. If they change leadership it just might save them. They have a long and proud history and it would be tragic if they go under. The current leader just doesn’t cut it and never has. He is not a safe pair of hands, quite the reverse. Just hope someone steps up and rebuilds the confidence they deserve.

People seem to have forgotten that it only became normal to change leader every five minutes during the 14 years of Conservative rule. And why is the media narrative these days all about parties that only have a handful of MP’s. When did that become normal? And who is gaining from it?

Media bias is much broader than newspapers.

The influence of newspapers is greatly exaggerated. People who oppose Starmer are as able to make up their own minds as those who support him.

Pity so many newspapers are owned by right leaning billionaires.
Of course they want to promote right leaning politicians.

👏👏👏
Yes: the headlines day on day in the right wing newspapers. I check them out.

They have from the start been on a mission to bring him down, and it hasn't stopped.

They don't report progress made. I'm not excusing failings or faults. the fuss made over the only for specs (not to mention the bitterly spectacular thread in GN on Raynors trousers 🙄)

When Farage is piling on the cryptocurrency for his party and just a bob or too for himself. Gross.

ronib

I had been thinking that the best protection against the dictator type leadership model was the ability to remove a failing leader if it became necessary. As witnessed by the Conservative Party in recent years. Iam64. Unsure that Starmer is providing stable leadership and it’s unclear that he will improve if he hangs on ?

Imo it’s the right wing media that is brain washing people into thinking he is a failing leader. Even with the problems caused by Trump things are steadily improving in this country.

I admit to being lost too Iam64, because Starmer isn’t a dictator, and the UK is still a democracy. I appreciate you don’t like him ronib, but you know how the parliamentary and party systems work in the UK, so it seems an erroneous point to me.

I had been thinking that the best protection against the dictator type leadership model was the ability to remove a failing leader if it became necessary. As witnessed by the Conservative Party in recent years. Iam64. Unsure that Starmer is providing stable leadership and it’s unclear that he will improve if he hangs on ?

ronib

I was thinking of Adolf Hitler as the most extreme example…

I’m missing your point here. There’s no comparison between Starmer, his supporters/ critics and Mr Hitler

Getting rid of of Prime Ministers, no matter how dreadful they were in recent years, didn’t provide the stability our country needs

It will be a tragedy if the Prince of darkness does for Starmer

Never mind 'history' ronib. It's happening in Trump's US of A. They must be deaf, as well as following blindly.
Not all the folk in the US.

MayBee70

David49

Starmer is a centrist and attracted many floating and other disenchanted Tory voters, a move to the left will see them changing back in droves. Those on the left, like most on GN already vote Labour, Starmer hasn't been able to carry out many of his manifesto policies because his MPs wont support him.

There are very few reasons why a more left wing government would have broad appeal, thats just wishful thinking.

They didn’t vote for a left wing government before but for Boris Johnson. What makes you think that they would now?

They believed in the Brexit fantasy but lost confidence with all the chaos that ensued after, now that lot have all gone support will revive, BUT Reform will dilute that right of center vote and a coalition is inevitable, unless Labour get their act together.

Worst of all a Green/Labour coalition that will cause real problems

Greens are very leftist, LD not so much, local LD are quite moderate, we have an LD MP and local council majority. At the GE Labour came nowhere, Reform gained a lot of votes.

David49

Starmer is a centrist and attracted many floating and other disenchanted Tory voters, a move to the left will see them changing back in droves. Those on the left, like most on GN already vote Labour, Starmer hasn't been able to carry out many of his manifesto policies because his MPs wont support him.

There are very few reasons why a more left wing government would have broad appeal, thats just wishful thinking.

They didn’t vote for a left wing government before but for Boris Johnson. What makes you think that they would now?

Do you sees the Greens and Lib Dem’s as more or less left wing than Labour currently are David49?

Starmer is a centrist and attracted many floating and other disenchanted Tory voters, a move to the left will see them changing back in droves. Those on the left, like most on GN already vote Labour, Starmer hasn't been able to carry out many of his manifesto policies because his MPs wont support him.

There are very few reasons why a more left wing government would have broad appeal, thats just wishful thinking.

I was thinking of Adolf Hitler as the most extreme example…

No the opposite holds for Starmer. *Casdon *Another way of expressing this - was MayBee 70 suggesting that Labour Party supporters get behind Starmer regardless of ability? As a country, we’re used to binning prime ministers in recent times.