Mandelson failed security vetting. Starmer says he didn’t know

Doodledog but at least we are engaged with politics, which a fair few people are not.

GrannyGravy13

Doodledog

No. It's not.

So what's your suggestion?

Honestly, I have no idea 🤷‍♀️

I am just so totally fed up with 21st century politics.

When will our elected representatives realise that there is no place to hide, parliament is filmed and with the majority of people having access to the internet and information at their fingertips what they say, tweet, etc., is out there for ever.

I agree with all of that.

The trouble with discussions like this is that nobody really knows what's happened, and few really understand the system anyway (including me), so everyone is talking from a position of being uninformed.

Starter is very far from perfect but a good man who is learning on the job the hard way. I believe him.
All the alternatives from the other parties are dreadful.

If Starmer hasn’t lied (I’m of the opinion he hasn’t) then it just highlights how powerful the Civil Service actually is.

Ollie Robbins possibly decided not to share that Mandelson failed the vetting bc Starmer had already endorsed him and in a misguided (and dangerous display of that power) decision thought he’d save his mate Starmer the embarrassment of revealing such.

No wonder Starmer and his Ministers are FURIOUS to be so cuckholded. At least all this will put the Civil Sevice under serious scrutiny.

Who runs the country?

It used to be said the CS advise and Ministers decide.

Seems not nowadays the case perhaps?

Ladyleftiefieldlover You think!? I don't think it is anywhere near harsh enough|!

If has misled the house he has to go. This is definitely not a time for the UK to be without a PM however, or for there to be interim arrangements, so in my opinion he should remain until his successor is appointed, which would take a few weeks. That would be difficult for him, but essential for the country. We will see what Tuesday brings, I’m not hedging my beds either way in the meantime.

It is simple to find debates in Hansard and on Parliament live TV

But here we go again:

Gilmour said: the fact that a source from MI6 has reportedly claimed that they failed to clear Mandelson and warned that his links to the man I refuse to name “would compromise him”. Downing Street pressed ahead with the appointment anyway. It is vital that the Civil Service Commission investigates whether the ambassador broke the diplomatic service code by failing to come clean over these revelations sooner.

It is not a FACT. It is hearsay. Who is the source claiming what to whom, when and where?

The Diplomatic Code is a code about standards of behaviour when carrying out the role. It says: [you are] expected to carry out your role with dedication and a commitment to the Diplomatic Service and its core values: integrity, honesty, objectivity and impartiality. Epstein was long dead before Mandelson's appointment so what has the diplomatic code got to do with it?

It's indicative of the muddled thinking going on around the whole business.

Doodledog

No. It's not.

So what's your suggestion?

Honestly, I have no idea 🤷‍♀️

I am just so totally fed up with 21st century politics.

When will our elected representatives realise that there is no place to hide, parliament is filmed and with the majority of people having access to the internet and information at their fingertips what they say, tweet, etc., is out there for ever.

GrannyGravy13

twaddle it’s also on X

I imagine there is a record at Hansard

Thank you. I found it. I've watched the bit with David Davis, but it's nearly 3 hours!

I'm a bit confused about the timeline. As far as I can tell, this took place after Mandelson's resignation/sacking. It doesn't actually refer to the enhanced vetting, which is what Starmer claims he didn't know about. There are, of course, plenty of reasons which were already in the public domain which would have rung alarm bells.

Rachel Gilmour repeated what was published in the Independent, which was hearsay. MI6 wasn't responsible for the vetting, so any "source" who claimed they failed Mandelson isn't telling the truth. MI6 would have been consulted along with other agencies, but would not have been responsible for any final decisions.

The trouble is with all this is that there's an awful lot of sloppy reporting. People aren't checking their facts and people are basing opinions on inaccuracy.

No. It's not.

So what's your suggestion?

If he has misled the house, is it ok for him to remain as PM just because there is no one else suitable?

Is that really a good precedent to set?

Sorry, that was in reply to Rosie

No, it's not. But seriously, what is the alternative right now?

If (and it's not yet proven) Starmer has lied then he should go, but who would replace him? We'd be looking at Cooper, Rayner or Streeting probably (or possibly Lammy) and none of them has the experience or personality to take on Trump or deal with the international situation as Starmer is doing. It's a sad state of affairs, but it's the truth, I think.

Sad to say, I think the Tories set a very low bar, but from day one, Sue Gray time, Labour seem determined to go under it.

Starmer really ought to go, problem is who will replace him, the cupboard is bare, no leadership talent. I see some here recommend Cooper.........now I know I've come to a fun place.

I hope Starmer hasn't lied because I think a leadership election at this time will be bad for our country but if he has then he does have to go. The ministerial code cannot be arbitrary and only apply to some but not all. I too commented on how low the bar is set when there were posters who at the time of Mandelson's appointment thought it was OK because of the need to match Trump and 'fight fire with fire'. I really don't think not being as bad as Johnson is a high enough bar to set.

Galaxy

Is that the bar now is it? How reassuring.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the bar is as low as it was, but unless there is a viable alternative (can you suggest one instead of hogging the moral high ground?) then it would be pointless for Starmer to resign in normal circumstances, and potentially disastrous for him to go in the current climate.

Someone mentioned Johnson…

twaddle it’s also on X

I imagine there is a record at Hansard

GrannyGravy13

Rachel Gilmour in the House of Commons 16th September, 2025

a source from MI6 has reportedly claimed they failed to clear Mandelson

I cannot see how the PM can continue to deny any knowledge before 14th April 2026…

The full debate is on YouTube.

Do you have a link because I'm sorry to say I can't find it.

REKA

So much whataboutery!

No doubt, Keir is desperately trying to work out what to say next week. Of course, as he's already said, it will be someone else's fault. Despite the fact he said the being procedure had been followed.

Dennis Skinner (real politician) said, about the Tories,
When posh boys are in trouble they sack their servants.

That's our Keir

Is it whataboutery to make absolutely sure that you have bought a waterproof new umbrella before you throw out your old one in the middle of a thunderstorm?

MayBee70

Ladyleftfieldlover

Have we forgotten Liz ‘lettuce’ Truss, who wrecked the economy and still believes she did the right thing. I often wonder if her family still speak to her.

And spends most of her time in America supporting Trump…

This isn’t about Liz Truss.

Rachel Gilmour in the House of Commons 16th September, 2025

a source from MI6 has reportedly claimed they failed to clear Mandelson

I cannot see how the PM can continue to deny any knowledge before 14th April 2026…

The full debate is on YouTube.

So much whataboutery!

No doubt, Keir is desperately trying to work out what to say next week. Of course, as he's already said, it will be someone else's fault. Despite the fact he said the being procedure had been followed.

Dennis Skinner (real politician) said, about the Tories,
When posh boys are in trouble they sack their servants.

That's our Keir

Ladyleftfieldlover

Have we forgotten Liz ‘lettuce’ Truss, who wrecked the economy and still believes she did the right thing. I often wonder if her family still speak to her.

And spends most of her time in America supporting Trump…

Have we forgotten Liz ‘lettuce’ Truss, who wrecked the economy and still believes she did the right thing. I often wonder if her family still speak to her.