Mandelson failed security vetting. Starmer says he didn’t know

It may have been mentioned upthread, but just now on Facebook, yes, that's why I'm asking here, is it an established fact that Johnson failed his vetting process, but was still appointed by Theresa May?
If so, I don't remember her resigning over that.

TakeThat7

Casdon says don't know the whole story yet above I think it's bad enough that a really dodgy character could get passed a vetting system for a pretty big job in government It shows no respect for the victims of Epstein The poor woman who exposed Epstein killed herself but a close friend of Epstein is fit to be an MP and have power in an important role in government

We don’t know if the vetting failure is related to the Epstein issues or not yet TakeThat7, I’m not sure whether we will know ultimately what the actual issue was, or whether confidentiality will prevent that.

Pot holes never fixed by labour council where I live and are unsafe for elderly walking across roads pavements are equally bad

I don’t suppose that councils in France have suffered sustained cuts to their services over so many years. The situation has reached crisis point in the UK because there is a huge amount of backlog. Unfortunately it can’t be fixed all at once.

Casdon says don't know the whole story yet above I think it's bad enough that a really dodgy character could get passed a vetting system for a pretty big job in government It shows no respect for the victims of Epstein The poor woman who exposed Epstein killed herself but a close friend of Epstein is fit to be an MP and have power in an important role in government

Because in the lives of people going to work on low pay who may not have the money to pay for car repairs they are important. But the concerns of those people often aren't seen as important.

What is it about potholes which so obsess people??!!
New tyres needed for me, thats what.

I've been driving many kilometers in France these past 10 days. How come their roads are immaculate, not a pothole in sight?

Oreo

Many things in the UK have gone to pot.Including great big holes in the tarmac.

What is it about potholes which so obsess people??!!

I've just received a flyer from Reform. One side isn't linked to the constituency at all, but just has a few statistics and a graph showing Reform's popularity. It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that this constituency hasn't had one of the main political parties in charge for nearly a decade.

The other side has a couple of sentences from the Reform candidate. She's been a local politician for quite a few years, during which time she's changed party twice - always to join the party on the ascendancy. As a result, she's been part of the ruling party for about 15 years.

Now she's promising to "fix" the problems caused by previous parties (of which she was a member) and the big issue for her seems to be potholes! Never mind shortage of housing, high rents, problems with adult and children's social care, school places in the wrong places, lack of public transport, problems for isolated villages. No, no, no - potholes trump everything apparently!

PS. The Labour Party allocated money to council councils to fix potholes and it's actually been quite conspicuous how many potholes have been fixed over the last few months - the trouble is roads have to be closed to fix them - and people moan about road closures!

Listening to the Laura K show this morning I was surprised that nobody asked a question about the 2 people in the cabinet office who reportedly knew about failing the security check a month ago but didn't tell Starmer??? (Antonia Romeo head of civil service and Catherine Little cabinet office permanent secretary ) Totally unbelievable that they had this info but didn't pass it on to Starmer.

Susieq62

Menopausal bitch but what is happening in the world is having for more effect on us than this
Price of petroleum, lies, war, cost of living etc etc
The Mandelson issue is nothing compared
My community is not going to pot thank you

My community/local area isn't going to pot either!

I can't think of one local issue which is affected by the Mandelson affair.

However, I can think of quite a few people who will be directly affected by higher fuel prices, possible food shortages, maybe being sent to fight in a foreign war and unemployment, to name just a few of the issues which concern the "man/woman on the street".

Many things in the UK have gone to pot.Including great big holes in the tarmac.

Susieq62

I really don’t care about this ! It is small fry compared to what is happening in the world at the moment! It is a distraction from much more important issues! What is done is done ! It isn’t treason for goodness sake!! Those of you with your knickers in an anti Starmer twist need to think about bigger things ! Starmer is not the greatest of leaders but he is standing up to the orange one so long may that last !!

It isn’t us getting knickers in a twist, it’s Parliament, misleading Parliament is usually a resignation matter.

Menopauselbitch why would anyone vilify you?

If your values align with those of Rupert Lowe, that’s up to you.

Menopausal bitch but what is happening in the world is having for more effect on us than this
Price of petroleum, lies, war, cost of living etc etc
The Mandelson issue is nothing compared
My community is not going to pot thank you

Susieq62

I really don’t care about this ! It is small fry compared to what is happening in the world at the moment! It is a distraction from much more important issues! What is done is done ! It isn’t treason for goodness sake!! Those of you with your knickers in an anti Starmer twist need to think about bigger things ! Starmer is not the greatest of leaders but he is standing up to the orange one so long may that last !!

We are so concerned about what’s happening in the ‘world’ whilst our own country goes to pot.

Allira

We really don't need a leadership change right now, though.

We need a party change.

MayBee70

So who do you want to be running the country at this moment in time?

Rupert slowed snd you can vilify me all you want.

And soon we will know.

Wholeheartedly agree, Graphite.

Absolutely Graphite.
People post their own views of what is true at length in the media. QED.
They receive criticism from others who have no idea what the poster actually knows, but only that it doesn’t suit their own POV.

I really don’t care about this ! It is small fry compared to what is happening in the world at the moment! It is a distraction from much more important issues! What is done is done ! It isn’t treason for goodness sake!! Those of you with your knickers in an anti Starmer twist need to think about bigger things ! Starmer is not the greatest of leaders but he is standing up to the orange one so long may that last !!

This emphasis on popularity is a nonsense most of it pumped out by a biased media.

Polling expert Sir John Curtice said, “it depends on what you want to measure—perceived performance or likeability. These are not necessarily the same thing."

Life isn’t or should be a popularity competition. Sometimes you have to trade popularity for getting things done. It’s why populist parties and populist party leaders are popular. They tell people what they want to hear irrespective of whether it’s true or possible.

The popularity question first started be asked in 1977 so we’ve had Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak and Starmer.

Who would you say performed better and who was more likeable?

Johnson’s premiership was a disaster and riddled with one failure and scandal after another (just as Max Hastings predicted) but he was and still is popular among his die hard fans.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

We live in very different times to 1977 made worse by 24/7 broadcast media plus social media where everybody has on opinion, much if it poorly-informed.

You Gov polling at Feb 26 comparing party leaders showed:

Favourable: Starmer 22, Badenoch 27, Farage 27, Davey 27, Polanski 22. Nothing much between them.

A week is a long time in politics. Much has happened since then but whatever is going on in the world, it stands to reason that the person who is having to make hard decisions that may be unpopular is the person who is going to show lower ratings.

It’s much easier to oppose than to govern as every elected government soon discovers.

There are people commenting on the Mandelson case calling Starmer a liar and calling for him to resign while admitting in the same breath that they don’t have all the facts.

Someone who has done jury service may be familiar with the fellow jury member who has already decided whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty before the case and evidence has been presented. Much of our media behaves just as irresponsibly.

WoodLane7

The media were suggesting last year that Mandelson had failed security checks. You have to ask yourself, if the media knew (or at least suspected) why didn't the person supposedly running the country? As a former DPP did the forensically minded PM not think to ask any questions?

Apparently Starmer had asked for clarification on whether Mandelson had passed the vetting and was told he had passed. What more can he do than this. He has nothing to do with the vetting so has to take the word of those who he should be able to trust to do it properly.

I imagine loads of people have things that might challenge the vetting process. Senior civil servants need to be able to make a judgement call on the acceptability of the candidate in the light of what's known and the risks and benefits. I can see how mandleson may have been viewed as potentially very useful in dealing with the complex and, frankly, very dark underworld that seems to surround the social group that an American ambassador would find themselves in. Epstein cultivated the rich and powerful and moving in those circles was unavoidable. He would at least know what he was getting into - the devil you know and all that. I wouldn't actually expect the PM to micromanage to the extent they asked further than the recommendation that their preferred candidate had been through the process. However, I think it's looking a bit unfair on the civil servant who's lost his job for following what I imagine isn't an uncommon practice and was a judgement call at that moment in time. I think Sir K may be reacting more like a legal professional would rather than a politician who has to deal with an imperfect world in a pragmatic way. Unfortunately, given the low trust people have in government he has little option than to react in the way he has. Glad it's not me making those difficult decisions. If we aren't careful about how we treat our senior civil servants we'll lose our impartial administrators and end up with a system like the American one where almost everything is a political appointment.

The media were suggesting last year that Mandelson had failed security checks. You have to ask yourself, if the media knew (or at least suspected) why didn't the person supposedly running the country? As a former DPP did the forensically minded PM not think to ask any questions?