Mandelson failed security vetting. Starmer says he didn’t know

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The timeline of what the PM knew and when is rather fuzzy

I think the witch hunt for Keir Starmer to resign is misguided. Who would take over? None of the potential candidates are particularly impressive. At least he is respected abroad. On a slightly different note, as previous posters have said - who exactly is running the country? Presumably the civil service who seem to have forgotten that they are servants of the people, there to carry out the policies of the government of the day rather than decide on their own agendas. It's there we should be looking and there we should be expecting resignations.

Completely agree with you that there's no one suitable to take over if Starmer goes hoomee29 which shows what a parlous state the country is in. If a swithering, dithering, can't make his mind up and doesn't know what the heck is going on in his cabinet is the best we've got; we're screwed. The thought of Farage or Polanski stepping in makes me feel sick to my stomach.

GrannyGravy13

MartavTaurus

I agree with what Kemi Badenoch says, either KS lied or he is hopelessly incompetent.

I fear you are correct on both counts

I hoped for better…

He's a weak, pathetic man, and a liar.

HowVeryDareYou2

GrannyGravy13

MartavTaurus

I agree with what Kemi Badenoch says, either KS lied or he is hopelessly incompetent.

I fear you are correct on both counts

I hoped for better…

He's a weak, pathetic man, and a liar.

So who do you want to be leading the country at this moment in time?

Cardamom

Completely agree with you that there's no one suitable to take over if Starmer goes hoomee29 which shows what a parlous state the country is in. If a swithering, dithering, can't make his mind up and doesn't know what the heck is going on in his cabinet is the best we've got; we're screwed. The thought of Farage or Polanski stepping in makes me feel sick to my stomach.

That’s the question though isn’t it?
If a swithering, dithering, can't make his mind up and doesn't know what the heck is going on in his cabinet is the best we've got . . .

I would take my chances with a new Leader.

Someone will take over. They always do.

If it is a "new" name from the Labour Party, I dont see it matters.
Probably just as well.

I wrote a post on this some time ago.
Many Prime Ministers have emerged that were not expected.
There are 390 to choose from, or whatever the number.

The thing that would bother me is timing.
Considering the wars.

Cant remember how long the whole procedure takes in the Labout Party. I need to look it up. From memory, it is a shorter time then the conservatives take.

Posts are a bit premature, in the light of, he hasnt gone yet.
But posts about who would take over come up regularly.

I heard Mr Hamish Falconer speak the other day.
He seemed quite sensible.

Amazing if a mistake over an appointee with an Epstein connection proved to be the downfall of our Prime Minister when someone with more direct (alleged) Epstein connections is causing havoc as POTUS.

Allira

Amazing if a mistake over an appointee with an Epstein connection proved to be the downfall of our Prime Minister when someone with more direct (alleged) Epstein connections is causing havoc as POTUS.

Yes definitely. Why should our PM be taken down so easily when nobody is doing anything to get rid of Trump who's committed innumerable illegal and immoral acts.

fancythat

I would take my chances with a new Leader.

Someone will take over. They always do.

If it is a "new" name from the Labour Party, I dont see it matters.
Probably just as well.

I wrote a post on this some time ago.
Many Prime Ministers have emerged that were not expected.
There are 390 to choose from, or whatever the number.

It took Starmer about a year in office to get up to speed on his new job and to develop confidence. If he is replaced, (IF - don't count your chickens too soon) it would take his successor that long after the selection process finishes, and he/she is confirmed in position, to be up-to-date with all the data and detail and settled as leader.

A lot could happen in that time, and a newly appointed PM would not be ideal. The big problems currently are international and volatile, and can't be left on the shelf while the PM concentrates on internal niggles, however much his/her electorate would like that. Starmer has respect internationally, which a newby would have to earn while learning the ropes and discovering how to deal with each foreign head of state.

Well said, Elegran.

I admit to being a critic of Starmer at first, but more probably of Rachel Reeves, but he is proving himself to be a strong, decisive leader in these difficult times.

Trump is very tricky and Starmer can and does stand up to him, standing firm whatever rubbish Trump spouts about the UK.
The last thing we need is a change of leadership at the moment.

I don’t think now is a good time for any country to be taking its chances myself. In fact I find the prospect dangerously scary. With the world in the perilous state it is, he is best placed to guide us through the next few weeks, as he has built relationships strongly with our allies, and he is standing firm against the whims and demands of the orange one.

I’m still on the fence about what he knew, and I think he should go if he lied to parliament, but not immediately because at the moment foreign affairs are more urgent than domestic ones. If it transpires that he genuinely did not know, then the Foreign Office needs an urgent review and heads need to roll there.

Casdon considering current world events I agree.

Starmer knew about Mandleson's background and Epstein relationship. However he was trying to do damage limitation as he didn't have anyone else who could manage the Trump administration. I don't think he would have wanted to choose him but he desperately needed someone with Mandleson's experience. I thought at the time he's taking a risk here and he probably knew he was but with Trump's unpredictability he made a risky choice. It backfired. Mandleson looks so creepy and unpleasant and had 2 previous sackings plus Epstein connection, sort of perfect for Trump. But a poor judgement from Starmer. Hopefully he's learnt a lesson here.

hoomee29

I think the witch hunt for Keir Starmer to resign is misguided. Who would take over? None of the potential candidates are particularly impressive. At least he is respected abroad. On a slightly different note, as previous posters have said - who exactly is running the country? Presumably the civil service who seem to have forgotten that they are servants of the people, there to carry out the policies of the government of the day rather than decide on their own agendas. It's there we should be looking and there we should be expecting resignations.

Are you saying rather than him going we should put up with him, however useless he is? 🤔

MayBee70

HowVeryDareYou2

GrannyGravy13

MartavTaurus

I agree with what Kemi Badenoch says, either KS lied or he is hopelessly incompetent.

I fear you are correct on both counts

I hoped for better…

He's a weak, pathetic man, and a liar.

So who do you want to be leading the country at this moment in time?

MayBee70 Ideally, I'd like there to be a general election. There isn't one Labour MP who would be any good.

Cardamom

Completely agree with you that there's no one suitable to take over if Starmer goes hoomee29 which shows what a parlous state the country is in. If a swithering, dithering, can't make his mind up and doesn't know what the heck is going on in his cabinet is the best we've got; we're screwed. The thought of Farage or Polanski stepping in makes me feel sick to my stomach.

Why on earth would that happen??

HowVeryDareYou2

MayBee70
HowVeryDareYou2
GrannyGravy13
MartavTaurus
I agree with what Kemi Badenoch says, either KS lied or he is hopelessly incompetent.
I fear you are correct on both counts

I hoped for better…
He's a weak, pathetic man, and a liar.
So who do you want to be leading the country at this moment in time?
MayBee70 Ideally, I'd like there to be a general election. There isn't one Labour MP who would be any good.

Well, that isn’t going to happen!

Casdon

I don’t think now is a good time for any country to be taking its chances myself. In fact I find the prospect dangerously scary. With the world in the perilous state it is, he is best placed to guide us through the next few weeks, as he has built relationships strongly with our allies, and he is standing firm against the whims and demands of the orange one.

I’m still on the fence about what he knew, and I think he should go if he lied to parliament, but not immediately because at the moment foreign affairs are more urgent than domestic ones. If it transpires that he genuinely did not know, then the Foreign Office needs an urgent review and heads need to roll there.

Well said

Alira, your comment about the Epstein Files is spot on.
How many times has Trump been named?
I know that isn't the focus of this Thread but hey, its worth a mention.

Historically the Foreign Office is always in control. I couldn't think of anything worse than a leadership change at the moment. Couldn't bear the thought of what the Tories put us through happening in the Labour party. Overall Starmer has dealt with Trump well. He refused to join in the Trump and Netanyahu's war. And admirably he didn't respond to Trump's offensive attacks on himself. Wise move as it just showed that Trumps rantings are becoming even madder.

Whether you like Starmer or not, think he's a good PM or not, in these current times he is sailing a steady ship. We need stability and calmness. The absolute last thing this country needs is the upheaval of a leadership election, and even more so not a general election. I was bitterly disappointed in Starmer for appointing `Mandelson and remain so. For those that thought appointing Mandelson, even knowing his past, was a necessary compromise, then I'd say if that's how low we're setting the bar then we've lost our moral compass. And that was before the further Epstein revelations.
But, and it's a big but, none of that would justify throwing ourselves under the train, there are plenty, Trump and Putin for starters who'd be happy to do that for us.