Trump says he will scrap trade deal with UK

ronib

I don’t think I understand your last sentence. twaddle

Simples! The attacks on Iran and Lebanon will not result in making Israel safer. They are not to defend Israel. They're bogus justification for Israel to grab land in south Lebanon and to distract from what is going on on the West Bank.

And to extend Netanyahu's time in government. He keeps promising Israelis "total victory" but it's not going to happen no matter how big the buffer zone between Israel and hostile states.

Maremia

Is one view more valid than the other?

No! Undoubtedly some Jews will support their govt and some Jews won’t.

The bottom line is, whatever their views, beliefs and moral conscience, many many people, who are not Jews, don’t agree with the ongoing indiscriminate slaughter of people in Gaza or Iran.

The important thing, imo, is that we accept that there are two sides to every story, however that doesn’t alter facts, facts that clearly show 1) innocent people of all nationalities and faiths, are being killed 2) within the UK we can do our very best to protect minority groups and I count both Jews and Muslims.

Terrorism has no colour, no faith, no particular nationality and is always wrong. Those “posing” as leaders are also often wrong, in my view Trump, Netanyahu, Putin are among the very worst of such leaders, along with the current secular govt in Iran, the leader of North Korea and many corrupt govts within Africa.

Us humans can be evil, horrible, insane people. It’s sad and tragic.

I don’t think I understand your last sentence. twaddle

ronib

What is so righteous about allowing Iran to continue its war against Israel? What is so shameful about protecting Jews? It’s becoming obvious that Jews in London are being attacked. Why? Is it because the Uk makes it clear that Israel won’t be defended by the Uk?

I don't follow the logic of that rhetorical question. Even if the UK were to join in the Israeli/attacks on Lebanon and Iran, it wouldn't make any difference to how Jewish people are protected in the UK.

There are people who correlate being Jewish with the actions of the Israeli government just as there are people who correlate being Muslim with the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah - all wrongly.

I see no justification at all for the UK to join in attacks on Iran and Lebanon. Those attacks are not to defend Israel anyway.

In my opinion I don’t think any war is necessary unless a sovereign country is being attacked/invaded. In the Second World War it was necessary because Hitler was invading other sovereign countries.
As for legal, this is tricky. The war in Iraq is deemed illegal but international law/protocols were sought as far as I know and allies were consulted. Yet still I believe it is an illegal war because it was not necessary. Iraq posed no threat to western countries and Osama Bin Laden was not associated with the Ba’athist regime led by Saddam. He also didn’t have WMD.
The present Iran war didn’t follow any international protocols and no western allies were consulted. Also Iran didn’t pose a threat to western countries. Nor can their regime be topppled from the air. So illegal several times over.
Not sure if this argument holds water but is the best I can come up with.

Oreo

Fallingstar has one view of the Israeli government and Jews in Israel and Jews here, and I have another.Many people in Israel agree with the government there and support the conflicts in Iran and Lebanon.As do many Jews in the UK.

I agree with this Oreo.
Like very many other people, there are widely differing opinions.

Very interesting point Mean.

Fallingstar

eazybee

Absolutely not.
We had a reasonable trade deal with America, better than most, which has been systematically undone by Starmer's behaviour.
His intention has always been to return to Europe, ignoring the democratic result of the Referendum, and he is achieving his aim. Disaster awaits.

So Starmer should have joined in an illegal war to appease Trump??
I don’t think any of this is related to Brexit. Starmer has to form closer ties with European allies right now in order to defend the nation seeing as Trump is increasingly hostile and aggressive to Europe and the UK. And he is also a very dangerous loose cannon, on top of the threat we face with Putin.

Is any war legal?

'Trump says', I wish his nonsense would fade away, just like his support in the USA.

Oreo

The thread title is wrong, Trump has hinted that he could change our trade deal but hasn’t said that he will scrap it.

You are right. Trump said he may change the trade deal which seems very beneficial to the US so he is unlikely to scrap it.

Is one view more valid than the other?

Fallingstar has one view of the Israeli government and Jews in Israel and Jews here, and I have another.Many people in Israel agree with the government there and support the conflicts in Iran and Lebanon.As do many Jews in the UK.

The thread title is wrong, Trump has hinted that he could change our trade deal but hasn’t said that he will scrap it.

Thanks Cossy 💐

Fallingstar

Well said and very brave of you.

I’ve always said, very very clearly, I blame Hamas for their awful actions, I blame Netanyahu for the terrible events occurring in Gaza now, I blame him and Trump for the recent attacks and subsequent war in Iran.

Neither Trump nor Netanyahu appear to give a fig about their own citizens.

Jews are not to blame for their awful governments actions.

Here in the UK we need to protect our Jewish communities.

Maremia

Refusing to join in an illegal war can
never be the 'wrong position'.

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

Maremia

Refusing to join in an illegal war can
never be the 'wrong position'.

👏👏👏👏👏

ronib

What is so righteous about allowing Iran to continue its war against Israel? What is so shameful about protecting Jews? It’s becoming obvious that Jews in London are being attacked. Why? Is it because the Uk makes it clear that Israel won’t be defended by the Uk?

There are very many Jews against Netanyahu’s blood letting. My family included. Judaism is a religion of peace and the Jewish people have suffered enough over the centuries to know that inflicting similar suffering upon other innocent people goes against everything most Jewish people stand for.
Have relatives in Israel who feel the same but Netanyahu puts the fear of God into people’s hearts so that they support his war crimes.
We were expecting the attacks on innocent Jews in the UK, and will probs happen elsewhere. Twisted minds like that of Netanyahu will see all Jews as being to blame.

I was wondering what trade the UK actually does with the US apart from a few electric cars and probably pharmaceuticals. Also I couldn’t think of much in Australia compared with, say, China.

What is so righteous about allowing Iran to continue its war against Israel? What is so shameful about protecting Jews? It’s becoming obvious that Jews in London are being attacked. Why? Is it because the Uk makes it clear that Israel won’t be defended by the Uk?

J52 named after him 'trumpets'
Good one.

Refusing to join in an illegal war can
never be the 'wrong position'.

The only thing I agree with Starmer so far is the way he has handled Trump, it's not just us he's fallen out with, the list of countries he's upset grows, we can't be backmailed into a war g to keep a Trade Deal. Blackmaiker just keep on with their demands and until he is admitted to a secure unit his denands will grow..The biggest mistake he made was not just going into a war he didn't know how to get out of but insulting Christians and Pope Leo. I think his days are numbered but who could be trusted, certainly not Vance. These devout followers have shown themselves as they are.
Yes men to Trump before their beliefs.
Once this has passed as it will, our relationship with America can be built back up. It just takes the right person.

Once again today’s Turbulent Times offers the opposite view. Trump’s blockade of Hormuz is working. Iran’s economy is suffering and the EU and UK have taken entirely the wrong position. An interesting read.

mae13

One thing is for definite - Trump has tarnished the office of President of the United States for good.

Whoever takes up the reins after he's gone will have the monumental task of restoring any credibility.

Richard Nixon was bad enough - and criminal enough as it turned out - but he never came within a fraction of being anything like Trump.

Nixon did his lying with dignity. Not a word to be used to describe Trump. Ever.

I agree.
Trump makes past presidents, no matter how bad, look far more palatable. Even Dubya, who at least went through the motions of seeking a yay or nay from allies before waging an illegal war against Iraq.
Indeed have never heard anyone speak like Trump or seen anyone act like him, he beggars description. Certainly a man like him should at all costs have been kept away from other people let alone being in public office.
And you’re right, it will be a long time, if ever, that western allies will view the US in the same way, the issue being that if this has happened once it could happen again, because Trump will go but his voters will still be there.