Trump & latest NATO threat 😱

Cossy

Smileless2012

What infuriated me was seeing an interview with Mark Rutte, Secretary State of NATO, saying after his 'behind closed doors' meeting with Trump, that he understood where he was coming from!!! .

Doesn't Rutte know that NATO members act to defend a fellow member when they're attacked, not to join in an illegal war started by a member of NATO?

He should have explained to Trump in words of no more than two syllables what being a member of NATO means.

As far as I'm concerned Trump and his cronies can take their threats and put them where the sun doesn't shine.

I’m so with you! The man clearly has no backbone and felt threatened by the Trump!

What annoys me the most, is despite having it explained so many times, so many different ways, neither Trump nor his allies abs supporters appear to a) Understand what NATO is and its agreed funding strategy and b) the difference between “attack” and “defence”

He calls Trump “daddy”

Creepy and very weird.

I should also add that the far right wing warmongers in Israel are also religious extremists and don’t represent the majority of Jews around the world.

Christian Nationalism/Evangelism is another form of religious extremism akin to Islamist extremism, inasmuch as it is all about violence, intolerance, and hatred. It doesn’t even have a nodding acquaintance with mainstream Christianity or Islam and is, as the Pope has made clear, abhorred by the faithful.

Meandrogrog

Caleo

AuntieE

Meandrogrog

Whitewavemark2

Meandrogrog

I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?

NATO has no remit for attack only defence. So it is a group of countries who are signed up to help defend any member who comes under attack from whoever it might be. Defence only.

The USA attacked Iran without recourse to NATO members.

The USA is not under attack.

I know NATO is for defence purposes only. My point was more that should the Iranian regime drop the N bomb at some point, how would we all feel then about ours and other countries not backing the US.

If that should happen we probably will not feel anything, as we will be dead!

However, if I should survive a nuclear attack I do hope my ethical and moral sense survives with me.

No-one has the right to begin a war - they may however do so as a consequence of not allowing another country to invade them, but in that case they are not the agressor.

In this case Trump is - along with those members of his administration and the US military who might just have been able to stop him from starting this stupid and unnecessary war.

So I trust if Iran does drop an atomic bomb in my lifetime, that I shall still feel Trump was in the wrong making war on Iran.

This week I watched the film "On the Beach" which is about the aftermath of nuclear war when most are dead except for a pocket of survivors. These know that death from radiation sickness will come eventually and soon. The authorities have suicide pills ready to distribute when the time comes.

I have read the book.

Nevil Shute's story is imaginative futurology as is Aunty E's message.
I think most people are scared of any politician who is escalating a conflict instead of arranging a peaceful compromise.

I am glad the Pope is speaking forcefully against Christian nationalism.

twaddle

Meandrogrog

twaddle

Meandrogrog

twaddle

What's this about Iran having a "stone age regime"? As others have written, many thousands of years ago, Iran/Persia had a civilisation more advanced than anything in America or Europe.

I know that but its a stone age regime now.

No, it's not stone age - it's a meaningless description of current Iranian society, emanating from somebody whose knowledge of history is apparently based on the Flintstones.

How bloody rude.

I was referring to Trump, who originally used the phrase to refer to destroying Iran. I'm afraid I can't see that he has any idea of history.

Iran's society is very restrictive, but, unlike Afghanistan, women are educated and make up a high proportion of university students, at least half.
Cultural identity is still strong too and change, although difficult, had to come from within.

Trump really is the Flintstone here.

Meandrogrog

twaddle

Meandrogrog

twaddle

What's this about Iran having a "stone age regime"? As others have written, many thousands of years ago, Iran/Persia had a civilisation more advanced than anything in America or Europe.

I know that but its a stone age regime now.

No, it's not stone age - it's a meaningless description of current Iranian society, emanating from somebody whose knowledge of history is apparently based on the Flintstones.

How bloody rude.

I was referring to Trump, who originally used the phrase to refer to destroying Iran. I'm afraid I can't see that he has any idea of history.

Cossy

mae13

Is there not even just one person in the American government who has the backbone to simply say "Mister President - you plainly need psychiatric assessment. Your behaviour has become unnacceptably dangerous".

Nope! Too scared or just do not care or (more worryingly) actually think their leader is bob on!

Many years ago I read a short story in a science fiction magazine. If you have not met it, read it here:- americanliterature.com/author/jerome-bixby/short-story/its-a-good-life One comment on a youtube version was " . . . Anthony isn't written as evil. He's a toddler and as a result of being a toddler doesn't have a full understanding of what things do and why." (that version had him aged 3, not 6)

It chilled me then. When Trump started his first presidency, I was chilled again, and I posted a link on GN to the story.

I am posting the link again as an answer to why there are not many in the US government who dare to simply say "Mister President - you plainly need psychiatric assessment. " When a psychopath appears to have absolute power, it is not that simple.

Fallingstar

I have to say that imho if Trump and his cronies were not in public office but were ordinary people holding some other position somewhere they would have have been sacked or in jail.

They would be promoted in my opinion.

The skew whiffed nature of the world.

twaddle

Meandrogrog

twaddle

What's this about Iran having a "stone age regime"? As others have written, many thousands of years ago, Iran/Persia had a civilisation more advanced than anything in America or Europe.

I know that but its a stone age regime now.

No, it's not stone age - it's a meaningless description of current Iranian society, emanating from somebody whose knowledge of history is apparently based on the Flintstones.

How bloody rude.

Indeed Cossy.
Innocent lives are lost due to the gross incompetence of these criminals.
Is as if we have opened the doors of high security jails and let the sociopaths run the world.

Fallingstar

I have to say that imho if Trump and his cronies were not in public office but were ordinary people holding some other position somewhere they would have have been sacked or in jail.

Absolutely spot on! He’s already a convicted felon, it’s both hilarious and shocking that this big yellow buffoon just carries on seemingly unchallenged!

I have to say that imho if Trump and his cronies were not in public office but were ordinary people holding some other position somewhere they would have have been sacked or in jail.

Cossy

mae13

Is there not even just one person in the American government who has the backbone to simply say "Mister President - you plainly need psychiatric assessment. Your behaviour has become unnacceptably dangerous".

Nope! Too scared or just do not care or (more worryingly) actually think their leader is bob on!

Personally, I think the majority of the electorate have an 'I'm Alright Jack' mentality. Yes, they do not care.

J D Vance is going to Islamabad to negotiate with Iran. He at least opposed this war.
Israel could scupper this by carrying on bombing and Iran won't begin talks till they stop.
Iran and the US are so far apart in what each wants that I doubt much if any progress will be made.

Iranian/Persian culture is one of the oldest cultures on earth - dating back at least 7000 years. It is thought that this region saw the first time humans became farmers as apposed to Hunter gatherers, which dates back 12000 years.

The Persians are very proud of their cultural history and with good reason.

So I’m afraid it shows a degree of ignorance on Trumps part - well more than a degree😄😄

Meandrogrog

twaddle

What's this about Iran having a "stone age regime"? As others have written, many thousands of years ago, Iran/Persia had a civilisation more advanced than anything in America or Europe.

I know that but its a stone age regime now.

No, it's not stone age - it's a meaningless description of current Iranian society, emanating from somebody whose knowledge of history is apparently based on the Flintstones.

twaddle

What's this about Iran having a "stone age regime"? As others have written, many thousands of years ago, Iran/Persia had a civilisation more advanced than anything in America or Europe.

I know that but its a stone age regime now.

mae13

Is there not even just one person in the American government who has the backbone to simply say "Mister President - you plainly need psychiatric assessment. Your behaviour has become unnacceptably dangerous".

Nope! Too scared or just do not care or (more worryingly) actually think their leader is bob on!

Fallingstar

I agree Allira. And this is a point worth considering for those who kept saying that Trump wants to get rid of the regime because of the way the regime brutalises its people or may even persevere with this viewpoint. This is basically incorrect as your post points out. Basically it is ok for Saudi to brutalise, murder, or execute its citizens, or migrant workers, because it is an ally. So it isn’t about human rights at all. Or even about hostile regimes rather than allies, seeing as Northern Korea hasn’t even earned a mention in Trumps rants about saving brutally oppressed people.
In essence it is Netanyahu’s war and he, like Bibi, needed a big gesture to distract from problems at home - Epstein - and play ‘the big I am’, imagining the war would be another Venezuela because what Trump knows about Iran and the whole region you could write on a beer mat with room to spare.

👍👍 👏👏👏👏

Maremia

What difference would it have made if the UK had 'co-operated'?
It is an illegal war.
There was no threat to the US.
Hegsith would have been in charge.
What has his leadership achieved?

👏👏👏👏👏

Is there not even just one person in the American government who has the backbone to simply say "Mister President - you plainly need psychiatric assessment. Your behaviour has become unnacceptably dangerous".

Meandrogrog: 'I am not a Trump supporter but do just wonder if the Iranian regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and then uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with the US against this vile regime?".

Lemonjam: Thats a rhetorical question Mendrogog. I guess the principle can be used the other way round if it's a valid question. So put the other way round - you may not be an Iran supporter Meandrogog, do you similarly wonder if the US or Israeli regime manages to make a nuclear bomb and uses it, should we and other countries have joined in with Iran against either the Israeli and/ or the US?

Meandrogog 17.14: "You are trying to compare like for like, which does not hold here. Iran is nothing like the US so no
I never wonder about the threat being the other way round"

Both US and Israel have nuclear capability so are alike with Iran in that respect. Iran has not made a nuclear bomb and threatened to use it. It is Trump and Netanyahu who are making the threats- they started this war, not Iran.

If you're dealing in 'IFS' be fair and even handed with your if question. I agree with Elegran 21.30 "there is no difference between Iran and the US. The threat could indeed turn the other way round".

What's this about Iran having a "stone age regime"? As others have written, many thousands of years ago, Iran/Persia had a civilisation more advanced than anything in America or Europe.

It's nothing to do with human rights.

I agree Allira. And this is a point worth considering for those who kept saying that Trump wants to get rid of the regime because of the way the regime brutalises its people or may even persevere with this viewpoint. This is basically incorrect as your post points out. Basically it is ok for Saudi to brutalise, murder, or execute its citizens, or migrant workers, because it is an ally. So it isn’t about human rights at all. Or even about hostile regimes rather than allies, seeing as Northern Korea hasn’t even earned a mention in Trumps rants about saving brutally oppressed people.
In essence it is Netanyahu’s war and he, like Bibi, needed a big gesture to distract from problems at home - Epstein - and play ‘the big I am’, imagining the war would be another Venezuela because what Trump knows about Iran and the whole region you could write on a beer mat with room to spare.