To think this so called art exhibition in Margate is nothing short of a hate crime

Galaxy 12.08: "I think it us useful to have a look at some of the information on the exhibition and information on the artist".

Many posters already have included such information in their posts to date. You and anyone else is free to add further information about the exhibition and the artist.

I think it us useful to have a look at some of the information on the exhibition and information on the artist.

How many would you suggest?

How many deaths does it become genocide?

Would be interesting to hear from sources in the know, what the artist 's intent was.
Is it named or labelled? That is usually a clue.
Sorry to have to agree with your post foxie, about Gaza.

Thank you Allirafor agreeing with me but the Israeli government is not the same as the Jewish people and I haven't seen the exhibition but what I've read about it my impression is that MC is representing the Israeli government and it's military, not Jewish people per se. I'm sure the war in Gaza is being used by people who are basically anti semitic but my point is clearly stated in the last sentence of my last post.
"If there is creditable evidence that the Israeli government has committed genocide in Gaza, it is not anti semitic to condemn them too and art can contribute in a unique way."

When 8,000 Muslim men were massacred by Serbs, I don't think it was seen as anti Christian to hold the Serbs responsible and to condemn them. If there is creditable evidence that the Israeli government has committed genocide in Gaza, it is not anti semitic to condemn them too and art can contribute in a unique way.

Do we condemn all Germans for the actions of Hitler and his Nazis? No. I know of British servicemen who married German women after WW2.
Do we condemn all Serbians for the actions of Mladić and Karodzić? Some might and I know one kind, gentle Serbian man who was shunned by some of his community when this atrocity happened. It was wrong to do that.
Likewise, should we condemn all Jewish people for the actions of Netanyahu and his Government ? Should hatred against Jewish people be stirred up by such as this artist?

I don't think so. He is taking this opportunity to get away with spreading his anti-semitic views in public.

Honesty is a good thing so if somebody has in the heat of scrolling misunderstood or misinterpreted a post, its good to say so perhaps.
Indeed. I'm always more than happy to say, oops, or to go off and check.
The thing is, I, and probably others, only pick my phone up for a quick glance at GN, and just say what instantly comes to mind. I haven't time at that moment to come back with a follow up look until later or not at all.

It's a case of a genuinely spontaneous reaction to an idea for most posters, but not a slap down.

"So if it was accepted for any other group I would possibly agree in terms of free speech. But Jewish people are the only group who this would apply to."

I'm not sure what you mean by this. There have been many artists that have used art to express political opinions connected to the genocides that have been committed in the last century. I think the difference is that in Rwanda, Cambodia, Srebrenica, Armenia etc it was possible to criticise the regime/group committing genocide without it being immediately seen in a much wider context. When 8,000 Muslim men were massacred by Serbs, I don't think it was seen as anti Christian to hold the Serbs responsible and to condemn them. If there is creditable evidence that the Israeli government has committed genocide in Gaza, it is not anti semitic to condemn them too and art can contribute in a unique way.

Honesty is a good thing so if somebody has in the heat of scrolling misunderstood or misinterpreted a post, its good to say so perhaps.

I have been offered up ( somewhat reluctantly) my experiences and thoughts only to be slapped down by the same old people over and over again. So therefore it's pretty pointless.

I did comment early on that I thought this exhibition sounds awful, I also did not suggest that the tax payer or an employer should pay for ESOL lessons.

Allira

^Gransnet similarly does not rule that posters must be "qualified" to pontificate on political matters- we are all able to share and express our differing views on the politics and news forum. All posters also have the freedom to choose as an individual which posts concerns them personally and which don't - there is no rule or law that states they must not express their views on matters that other posters consider "simply don’t concern them".^

Well, that's a relief to read!

So often we see posters being told their views are not well-researched, are just opinion (unless something is an absolute, it is someone's opinion) or that their views are not welcome because they don't live in this country or they do not concur with other posters. Yet daily we read threads about the politics of other countries and posters are dismissive of the views of others.

Thank you Lemonjam, I agree with you. Without varying opinions and different views, this would be a very boring forum.

Perhaps those words should be at the start of every thread😄
Remind people that other opinions are just as valid as their own are to them.

I can only echo what you have said Galaxy

So if it was accepted for any other group I would possibly agree in terms of free speech. But Jewish people are the only group who this would apply to. Actually I correct myself there was once an art exhibition against gender critical feminists- punch terfs and the like.
I often find the intersection between the anti semitic and the misogynists vaguely interesting. You rarely get one without the other.
I mean have people looked into the artist ( suspended from the labour party under corbyn, etc) but yeah we must march against the far right ( hollow laugh).

There are lots of people who believe that the Israeli government is committing genocide in Gaza. The UN has raised serious allegations with regard to this so MC's position is not that unusual. I think it is generally accepted that the Nazis committed genocide so it's a very short step to link the actions of the Israeli government and the IDF with those of the Nazis. Jews may, and IMO should, feel very uncomfortable about that but it is in no way anti semitic to make that connection and there are plenty of Jewish people who also make that connection. Are they anti semitic? Art is not always about making people feel comfortable and if MC's exhibition makes people think, discuss, argue and disagree IMO that's a good thing? Perhaps the Holocaust wouldn't have happened if enough people had been brave enough to challenge what Hitler was telling the Germans about Jews!

Looked up the one that is described and Google says it represents Cronus, the Titan, who ate his children.
The tale of Hansel and Gretel involves the intended eating of children.

Krampus is horned, like the Devil, so probably not who the statue is representing, although he too eats children.

Now I have heard of Krampus, who is 'celebrated' just before Christmas.

I think it only matters when someone is making an assertion that is based on statistics or needs a bit of information to back up
As in “all people who do this are…. Etc etc.

Gransnet similarly does not rule that posters must be "qualified" to pontificate on political matters- we are all able to share and express our differing views on the politics and news forum. All posters also have the freedom to choose as an individual which posts concerns them personally and which don't - there is no rule or law that states they must not express their views on matters that other posters consider "simply don’t concern them".

Well, that's a relief to read!

So often we see posters being told their views are not well-researched, are just opinion (unless something is an absolute, it is someone's opinion) or that their views are not welcome because they don't live in this country or they do not concur with other posters. Yet daily we read threads about the politics of other countries and posters are dismissive of the views of others.

Thank you Lemonjam, I agree with you. Without varying opinions and different views, this would be a very boring forum.

Politics concern everyone so it’s natural if you are an artist interested in politics to make political work, just a artists who like landscape paint landscapes, and artists who are interested in past art and artists and reference them and their work do just that….

And artists of all kinds, visual, musical, writers, including in the ancient world, have always been involved in politics if it’s either an area of interest, or commissioned to represent a particular POV.

Ronib 12.58 "I wish I understood why artists are so qualified to pontificate on matters which simply don’t concern them".

The law does not require anyone, including artists to be "qualified" to pontificate on political matters that some may consider "don't concern them". We have freedom of speech laws in the UK and also have freedom to choose as an individual what concerns us personally.

Gransnet similarly does not rule that posters must be "qualified" to pontificate on political matters- we are all able to share and express our differing views on the politics and news forum. All posters also have the freedom to choose as an individual which posts concerns them personally and which don't - there is no rule or law that states they must not express their views on matters that other posters consider "simply don’t concern them".

Oreo

Such choice of interpretations! Yet the ogre wears a Jewish hat.
🤔

Indeed.
There definitely exists a few different theories about the neaning of the Bern statue. It's just interesting that tour guides bring up the Jewish connection. I happened to read a few sites on it in German this morning to make sure.

Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm were German academics and folklorists so they collected their inspiration from many sources. They wrote in the nineteenth century, I remember studying their works as a specialist subject for part of my German degree.
The Kindlifresser statue in Bern is 16th century.

Charles Dickens and Oliver Twist, 1938, the Holocaust 1941 - 1945, 6 million Jews murdered, Mengele carried out experiments on babies and children, are we to believe he was trying to heal them ?

ronib

I wish I understood why artists are so qualified to pontificate on matters which simply don’t concern them. Is it to sell really bad art at £400 for work on paper and around £4K for an oil painting?

You'd have to be pretty sick to buy that to hang on your wall.

I wish I understood why artists are so qualified to pontificate on matters which simply don’t concern them. Is it to sell really bad art at £400 for work on paper and around £4K for an oil painting?