People living in the Middle East

nanna8

Different circles of people, clearly. Where we live the tax rate is huge and getting worse ( Labor government)

But you don’t live in the Middle East … do you Nanna8?

I thought you lived in Australia?

Freya5

Seemingly a nasty judgemental lot on here. Still that's socialism for you. Did you spout the same when we had to bring over a load of Afghanis because they were caught in a war. No I guess you didn't.

You know very well, (or should do) that we evacuated a great many Afghans from their own country because, having worked for the allies in Afghanistan they were in very real danger of vicious and bloody reprisals by the Taliban.

They weren't holiday makers, workers seconded to Afghanistan or tax exiles. They were people in imminent mortal danger because of their support for the 'invaders'.

I seem to recall our PM and Foreign secretary of the time being on holiday and really not particularly interested,,

What a ridiculous comparison you made.

Nann8 "Tax dodging didn’t even enter our minds when we left the UK and I am sure 90% of people leaving are the same. What nasty assumptions some make"

Posts referring those who live/work in the Middle East for beneficial tax reasons- do not apply to those who have chosen to emigrate to Australia.

Middle Eastern countries often feature a zero personal income tax feature and low VAT equivalent. Evidently the avoidance of tax regimes such as UK and Australia provides huge draw to those who choose to move and work and live in ME. Not a nasty assumption in any way.

More speculatively- if UK residents choose to leave ME and come and reside in UK now- before tax year end in April this may have tax implications? I8f so perhaps some are considering such implication in their decision to stay, wait or leave. I evidently don't know and am just speculating.....

I often felt I have entered the twilight zone or alternate universe when I arrived at Gransnet. Such as this thread.

Surprise to see the level of resentment and anger and name calling (tax dodgers and fraudsters) levelled at fellow citizens – British expats working and living in Middle East at a time when their lives are in danger.

I heard of the tall poppy syndrome. As soon as someone becomes successful, some people become envious and resentful and will cut that person down to their level.

The people returning home now are holiday makers on transit who are stuck in Middle East . They cannot rely on their travel insurances since travel insurances do not cover acts of war.

So looking towards the FCO to help them repatriate back home to Old Blighty.

Random question. With the travel restrictions in mind, I’m listening to Anna Foster reporting from the ME. She’s been travelling widely through the region this week, from country to country.
Do journalists just get around by road with local guides in 4x4s?

Or travel with military, perhaps?

Either way, incredibly brave. Really rate Anna Foster. .

sixandahalf

How does it work in Dubai if you are gay?

Prison

Some tall poppies will stay and blow in the British wind … SporeRBO1 and thank goodness they do.

sixandahalf

How does it work in Dubai if you are gay?

And capital punishment - depends on country but basically illegal in most of ME.

I read that there are many Afghan refugees now in danger in Iran, some of whom are Afghan people that had to flee when the Taliban took back control because they’d been working for us. It’s shameful the way we let those people down.

SporeRB01

I often felt I have entered the twilight zone or alternate universe when I arrived at Gransnet. Such as this thread.

Surprise to see the level of resentment and anger and name calling (tax dodgers and fraudsters) levelled at fellow citizens – British expats working and living in Middle East at a time when their lives are in danger.

I heard of the tall poppy syndrome. As soon as someone becomes successful, some people become envious and resentful and will cut that person down to their level.

The people returning home now are holiday makers on transit who are stuck in Middle East . They cannot rely on their travel insurances since travel insurances do not cover acts of war.

So looking towards the FCO to help them repatriate back home to Old Blighty.

Oh dear me - let’s add tall poppy syndrome to champagne socialists, politics of envy and other intellectually vacuous nonsensical phrases. I don’t think anyone on here doesn’t want anyone to be helped to come home. Holiday makers and any ex pats. The former are in a different situation from the latter. Apparently well over half of expats haven’t registered as wanting help. Most are going to sit it out and hope it passes. However, taking vulnerability etc into account ( as the govt is) those who want to are being brought home as logistics allow. And yes I am critical but certainly not envious of ex pats in ME. Just as I was with any of my peers who went to South Aftica in the 60s and 70s. I would never choose to live in any country with appalling human rights records, that punished ( sometimes with death) people who loved the wrong person, You couldn’t pay me enough. Plus the appalling treatment of the migrant workers in many of these countries which allows the expats to have an apparently lovely life.

Nothing to do with tall poppies. I wouldn't wish to visit Dubai. I hope people get back safely.

Those poor, poor migrant workers were totally dispensible.I can't imagine being a maid there is great either.

Conversely, many reports focus on employers facing jail time for severely abusing or torturing domestic workers, with sentences ranging from one year to 15 years in prison, sometimes resulting in permanent disability or death for the worker.
Gulf News

Anyone stranded in Dubai should be brought home, but should have to repay the costs afterwards. They should have been aware of the risks of travelling to/via the Middle East. It’s easy to jump on a plane without considering the destination. Dubai is directly opposite Iran!

I don’t have any particular axe to grind with people who go abroad to work, we’ve done it ourselves. My dh followed the work - while the UK is busy shutting down the O&G sector, people have taken their skills abroad. Seems reasonable to me to take a well-paid job in the ME rather than live on benefits in the UK. These people aren’t costing the Uk anything, their health/any educational costs will be covered by their employers, or at least that’s how it works amongst the folk I know who live abroad, and I’m sure they expect to pay the costs of repatriation. Often the work is very interesting or it’s a new challenge or even a new field altogether. I know both my daughters value their experiences of living abroad (as opposed to holidaying) very highly. It changes your outlook on life.

As for the Afghans who were brought to Britain in 2021, how do we know their motives for working for the UK? They too may have seen it as job security with good money or to gain advantage to come to the UK, or perhaps it was a way in which to feed back information to their own forces/government? We can’t know what their reasons were.

Everyone has different motives for what they do, I don’t automatically malign people who choose differently from me.

seasider

I have friends working for the UK government in the ME . They pay normal UK tax . Not everyone is a tax dodging ex-pat .

I was going to post that not all are tax dodgers!
Some might be students on gap years too.

GrannyGravy13

Tuliptree

GrannyGravy13

Two families I know (one my Goddaughter) still have properties in the UK. They pay council taxes, road fund licence for car, tax on their rental income from their home rental.

If push comes to shove and they need repatriation of course all British citizens should be offered the chance of a safe passage.

Unless you know the financial details of every ex-pat, it seems rather heartless to put finances over lives.

No-ones putting finances over lives. Some of us just agree they should pay for their ticket. This is normal embassy practice and they already have a form for it. They will not pay the full cost to us of the FCO time needed to sort this out.

I have not said they shouldn’t pay.

If they need to be repatriated, then the Government should do so PDQ and sort payment out once they are safe on UK soil.

Agreed, Grannygravy.

AuntieE

Surely the people you are talking about, irrespective of their nationality, have chosen to live in the Middle East in order to avoid taxation in the countries in which they are citizens?

Or have I misunderstood the issue?

If my original statement is correct, then my feeling is that they must themselves pay for getting out of what is now a war zone into safety. Why on earth should the tax payers in their countries have to indirectly pay for their transport? They are already defrauding the country in which they are citizens of the tax they owe.

They are already defrauding the country in which they are citizens of the tax they owe.

Why does anyone owe UK tax on a salary they have not earned in the UK?
How is this fraud?

Are you saying any UK citizen who works overseas or lives overseas for any reason and for whatever length of time is a tax dodger, a fraud?

Of course, wishing to leave a war zone and return to their home country of which they are a citizen, should incur a cost.

Freya5

Seemingly a nasty judgemental lot on here. Still that's socialism for you. Did you spout the same when we had to bring over a load of Afghanis because they were caught in a war. No I guess you didn't.

Nasty, judgmental, spouting .

What is your name for people who use that sort of language about other posters? And what has any of that got to do with socialism?

Most people seem to agree that people wanting to come to the UK after leaving to live in low tax countries should pay for their own flights. Not be made to wait in danger zones until they pay, but invoiced later. How is that a socialist perspective, and how is it 'nasty' and 'judgemental'? I'm not sure how you 'spout' points of view, and how it differs from expressing an opinion on a discussion board - perhaps you can explain?

Freya5

Seemingly a nasty judgemental lot on here. Still that's socialism for you. Did you spout the same when we had to bring over a load of Afghanis because they were caught in a war. No I guess you didn't.

I was a bit 😲 when a load of dogs were brought over from Afghanistan and people left behind.

"We had to being over a load of Afghanis"

Blimey, you're on fire today.

Allira

seasider
I have friends working for the UK government in the ME . They pay normal UK tax . Not everyone is a tax dodging ex-pat .
I was going to post that not all are tax dodgers!
Some might be students on gap years too.

This point was covered posts ago. People working abroad for UK govt are not expats. They are Crown Servants as I already explained and are not the subject of this thread

Witzend

Dubai is a massive hub - I dare say plenty of people who are now stuck there were just transiting on their way to Australia, Singapore, and other stops east, or on their way back from such places.

We were on our way back from Australia last Saturday. Luckily we flew via Bangkok with Thai airlines.
Thank goodness we didn’t choose Emirates.
We were confined to our hotel room in Perth when Covid struck. We were flying with Cathay Pacific and Hong Kong refused to accept transit passengers so we were stuck. Thank heavens for Trailfinders, they got us on a flight via Oman. We had to pay for it. Fair enough, it wasn’t the tax payers fault and because we had help from the travel agent we didn’t have to put more than one flight on our credit card. No help from our embassy.
Once when we were over there my father died very unexpectedly so we had to fly home. Im beginning to wonder if we should visit our daughter again!
My thoughts are with those who were stranded on their way back to the U.K. hopefully hotel rooms have been found for them.

Excellent post SueDonim