Comments on immigrant benefits

Just seen the quote regarding “Dr Sai Ishaya” above.

Never heard of him, can find out nothing about him so would hardly call him a reliable source.

It doesn’t matter how many lofty and wordy posts are copied on here from odd bods on X about right wing this and that, the facts of the matter are that immigration had to come down, and fair play to this government they have been working behind the scenes to crack down on student visas and other which is helping.What is really difficult and worrying to many areas of the country is the number of asylum seekers, lots of young men from cultures ( in the main) vastly different to ours who are wandering around with little money and nothing to do.
It’s bound to cause concern and there have been sexual assaults on women young girl and rapes.
The blame lies squarely on successive governments who needed to house them in ex military bases while they were having their claims assessed.Clean basic housing with a room for indoor sports, and a few rooms to socialise in.No wandering around outside the base.

I think everyone knows what virtue signalling is and it’s seen all the time on forums unfortunately.

barmcake

I’ll try being more accurate with my statistics, if you try being less sarcastic and imperious.

It's a deal! When shall we start?

If we haven't started yet, I'll quickly mention that being accurate with statistics is one thing, and talking utter hogwash about '70% of the bill' and claiming you are speaking from 'experience' sounds depressingly like ignorance or propaganda though. I wasn't even being sarcastic.

easybee I don't expect an answer, really, but what is virtue-signalling about asking which bill is being referred to? How are we supposed to understand what 'households with a jobless foreign national account for 70% of the bill' means if we don't know which bill is being discussed? Do you know what 'virtue-signalling' means?

are not one of

MaizieD

^Ah well us ordinary people didn’t not really know the shorthand acronyms that fly about the political spheres.^

Is this some sort of inverted snobbery 🤔

It’s a kind of irritation at the superior sneering attitude at this ignorant person doesn’t understand the shorthand that we informed superior people use.

No need to sneer. Just put me right like Doodledog did.

and a despair at what it reveals about the attitude to ordinary people who are mint one the informed elite who know best.

If that’s inverted snobbery I guess I’m guilty of it.

Ah well us ordinary people didn’t not really know the shorthand acronyms that fly about the political spheres.

Is this some sort of inverted snobbery 🤔

Maremia

You could also try the Byline Times, Primrose, for some real reporting.

And no, I have no idea what MSN is either.
Maybe, Main Stream Nonsense?

Ah well us ordinary people didn’t not really know the shorthand acronyms that fly about the political spheres.

We tend to live ordinary lives dealing with the world about us as it rather than sneering from on high.

Doodle dog kindly explained to me what MSM was.

I’m grateful that at least someone doesnt hold ordinary people in contempt.

I wouldn't concern yourself too much about your statistics, Barmcake; it is only the virtue -signallers having their quiet, very condescending, moment.

I’ll try being more accurate with my statistics, if you try being less sarcastic and imperious.

How can the notion that homes with one jobless foreign national account for 70% of the bill (what bill?) come from your own experience? What experience is that?

You might live somewhere where there are many such homes, but how can you possibly know the percentage of ‘the bill’ they use? Which bill? Without residential status there will be no benefits, and probably no homes either, unless the jobless person is a dependent relative, such as an elderly parent, a child or a new mother. Are records kept about how many such people are foreign nationals? Seriously, how many people do you think are here with family who are able to get them here and house them?

Many - if not most - of us on here are ‘jobless’, as are students, stay-at-home parents, the sick, carers and so on. Are we included in ‘the bill’? Would we cost more if we were foreign nationals?

You don’t have to be good with statistics to be able to question how likely it is that claims like this are true. However much people roll on the floor laughing to show their disdain for those who point this out, a good place to start is with the source of the statement. Random claims with no sources given are less likely to be true than those that verify what they say and back it up. Anyone can state figures but that doesn’t make them true.

People’s lived experience does matter. If you have a child in a school that doesn’t have English as a majority language, or if you have an asylum hostel in your street your experience is affected by that. But how can your experience give you knowledge of the percentage of an unspecified bill paid to households with a jobless foreign national in them? That doesn’t make much sense, really.

Thanks for the information Graphite. I feel as if the world has left me behind. My views don't seem to align with the approved narrative. I apologise for giving misinformation, but it's really all based on my own personal experience.

Please be more specific about your source.

If that number is coming from the Sun, Mail. Express, Telegrapgh or GB News, than it will be from the so-called Centre for Migration Control or CMC. This isn't a centre at all but one man called Robert Bates. He has been working for Farage and Tice for years and is paid to fabricate lies to feed to the media. It is misinformation and has already been exposed as such in this thread, if you care to read it.

If you can provide statistics from the DWP then fine.

Lathyrus3

Oh thanks Doodledog. So we’re talking about all the newspapers, TV etc. The whole caboodle.

Well you can find anything you want I suppose in all of those and judge what’s true or not depending on your personal view point.

You can’t get away from the personal can you really.

Homes with at least one jobless foreign national account for 70% of the bill. These figures come from The Centre for Migration.

I'm not good at statistics so apologise if I'm wrong. All I know is that things like the N.H.S, housing, schools and law & order are at breaking point and general moral is low. People are desperate.

You could also try the Byline Times, Primrose, for some real reporting.

And no, I have no idea what MSN is either.
Maybe, Main Stream Nonsense?

Lathyrus3

Oh thanks Doodledog. So we’re talking about all the newspapers, TV etc. The whole caboodle.

Well you can find anything you want I suppose in all of those and judge what’s true or not depending on your personal view point.

You can’t get away from the personal can you really.

No, it seems not.

Yes, I'm never sure what non-mainstream media are - narrowcasts? Niche magazines? I think the term is often used to mean messages other than those on Social Media, which are very mainstream these days, although algorithms can point them in particular directions. I'm not sure that that is technically the correct usage though.

This post from Dr Sai Ishaya on X:

I've been reflecting on how I engage with far-right British political slop on social media and it reminded me of Brandolini's law (The Bullshit asymmetry principle). A similar tactic used by Trump during his first campaign. It posits that the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than that needed to produce it. It's the strategic use of mis/dis-information to overwhelm the cognitive and emotional capacity of an audience. What makes this strand of British far-right politics so draining is not just the claims themselves. It’s the labour they force onto everyone else. You are often left shouting at the ghost of an argument that has already achieved its emotional response. They throw out something half-true, selectively framed, or flat-out misleading like "White working-class boys are being abandoned", "Migrants are draining the welfare state", "White British nurses can't get jobs." Each claim is packaged to sound plausible enough that you can't ignore it, but distorted enough that it collapses under scrutiny. And once it's out there, the burden is deliberately meant to shift to you. Suddenly you're the one digging up datasets, posting reports, linking studies, explaining how school attainment works, how benefit eligibility works, how NHS recruitment actually functions. You spend hours trying to restore context that they stripped away in seconds. Meanwhile the asymmetry is the point. They don't need to win the argument, they just need to flood the space with claims that require correction. It keeps people stuck in a permanent defensive crouch, reacting instead of setting the terms of the argument. While you're explaining statistics and providing "nuance", they're repeating the slogan and planting the ideas. You are doing their own work for them. Helping spread their own message.

We see it here every day e.g. Primrose’s linking to fabricated statistics from the Centre for Migration Control which isn’t a centre at all but one bloke who’s been working for Farage & Co for years, feeding his lies to right wing print and broadcast media which is only too happy to spread those lies.

Anyway, much of the money which is spend on supporting asylum seekers is coming from the ODA budget.

(If DaisyAnneReturns is reading this, she posted an interesting video link a while back from Phil Moorhouse about the lizard brain and how it functions, which is pertinent to what Dr Ishaya has said. I haven't been able to locate in Phil's YT series. It would be helpful if she was able to relink. Thanks.)

Oh thanks Doodledog. So we’re talking about all the newspapers, TV etc. The whole caboodle.

Well you can find anything you want I suppose in all of those and judge what’s true or not depending on your personal view point.

You can’t get away from the personal can you really.

This country has paid £15 billion in benefits to migrant households in the past 18 months, yet my local hospital has cancelled all routine operations until next year because of financial issues. We've got our priorities wrong.

No, the government has got its economic beliefs wrong. it could easily fund the NHS properly and still fund benefits to 'migrant households' (though I'm not clear what you would define as a 'migrant household')

'Benefits' to anybody drive economic activity in the economy as the money is spent into the economy by its recipients. Funding the NHS would have the same result. Neither of these is a black hole into which money is poured and is never seen again.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

That sounds familiar Petra, and the people smugglers make the U.K. sound like paradise too. It's a bit like us and 'A Place in The Sun' we move to these place and find out it's not all roses.

This country has paid £15 billion in benefits to migrant households in the past 18 months, yet my local hospital has cancelled all routine operations until next year because of financial issues. We've got our priorities wrong.

Lathyrus3

Maremia

MSM, for example, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Times, The Express cite dodgy statistics from the 'Centre for Migration Control'.
For the link to this, have a look at Doodledog's post upthread.
Yes, lived experience is important, but so is true reporting on MSM.

Ah, you mean some people believe negative things about immigrants they read on MSN.

I don’t do MSN ( not even sure exactly what it is) myself so I didn’t know what you meant about what was on it.

There’s lots of stuff out there. Just out of interest how do you decide what’s true

For instance you’ve posted that taxis are being phased out. True.
And I’ve posted that immigrants are still being provided with free taxis to appointments.
Also true.

And there’s the dilemma of what somebody reads - no more taxis and what they experience - the taxis still turning up.

That’s why I say that to most people their direct, personal experience is what will form their opinions rather than what they read anywhere.

We are only supposed to read The Guardian and Morning Star if we want the “truth”. 🤣🤣

Maremia

MSM, for example, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Times, The Express cite dodgy statistics from the 'Centre for Migration Control'.
For the link to this, have a look at Doodledog's post upthread.
Yes, lived experience is important, but so is true reporting on MSM.

Ah, you mean some people believe negative things about immigrants they read on MSN.

I don’t do MSN ( not even sure exactly what it is) myself so I didn’t know what you meant about what was on it.

There’s lots of stuff out there. Just out of interest how do you decide what’s true

For instance you’ve posted that taxis are being phased out. True.
And I’ve posted that immigrants are still being provided with free taxis to appointments.
Also true.

And there’s the dilemma of what somebody reads - no more taxis and what they experience - the taxis still turning up.

That’s why I say that to most people their direct, personal experience is what will form their opinions rather than what they read anywhere.

Maremia

Taxis to hospitals for asylum seekers are being phased out. Fact.

Very true.

And in the meantime still ongoing.

😬

Barmcake
We went to live in Bulgaria pre the country joining the eu.
When it happened you can understand how jubilant they were.
They had heard the tales of the fantastic wages you could expect.
Talking one evening with a group of people who couldn’t wait to leave and be as rich as crassus. I proceeded to educate them in tax, ni, food, transport, rent etc etc.
They didn’t believe me 🤷‍♀️