The right wing splits itself... it is the haven for power hungry narcissists who want to destroy society whilst making themselves super-rich. You don't have to go over the pond even to see how this works...it eventually eats itself.
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If you want to know what Reform would be like in power, look at how it threatened Bangor University
(141 Posts)Reform UK asked students at Bangor University would they like to enjoy a question-and-answer session with Sarah Pochin – the Reform UK MP famous for saying it “drives me mad” to see TV adverts full of black people – and Jack Anderton, the 25-year-old influencer who helped send Nigel Farage’s TikTok account viral among teenagers? No, the university’s debating society decided, it would not as nt “in line with our values” declining Reform’s offer, expressing “zero tolerance for any form of racism, transphobia or homophobia”.
Reform’s Zia Yusuf thundered on X that Bangor got £30m from taxpayers and he was “sure they won’t mind losing every penny of (their) state funding under a Reform government”.
So Reform threatens to put universities out of business – with all that would mean for students halfway through their degrees, or towns reliant on a major employer – if they don’t fawningly accommodate any regime-backed Reform political nonentity who asks is the stuff of autocracy, not democracy. And the lesson from Donald Trump’s America, where pro-free speech Republicans have proved remarkably intolerant of people speaking against them, is that the pressure rarely stops there.
What would stop the financial intimidation of a BBC reliant on the licence fee? What about charities and cultural or civic institutions receiving public grants, or newspapers with owners anxious to protect their other business interests, or schools? Though a Reform spokesperson later insisted Yusuf’s comments were “not party policy”, Yusef's literal job title is head of policy, and Reform has previously advocated removing at least some funding from universities that don’t protect "free speech".
This house believes it is wise to split the right wing vote as this ensures Labour remains in power?
Bangor could have said they would welcome the Reform speakers to a properly structured debate when they had a slot in their programme.
How would you word the motion Grumppa?
This house believes that the Reform party is the answer to life and the universe.
This house believes that if an institution does not accept the dictates of the Reform party it should be closed down.
Any more?
Oreo
Casdon
Can you imagine the ARRs coalition. They would be infighting like rats in a sack before the ink was dry on the election results. Maybe to a refrain of I Just Can’t Wait To Be King.
We Labour voters can’t be too full of ourselves at the moment,
As there’s infighting aplenty and to the same refrain you mention.
I wouldn’t know about that, as I don’t vote Labour in fact - but if I could, it wouldn’t stop me making fun of other parties, a little gentle humour is sadly lacking on here sometimes.
Grumpa 16.43- they chose not to it appears…
Casdon
Can you imagine the ARRs coalition. They would be infighting like rats in a sack before the ink was dry on the election results. Maybe to a refrain of I Just Can’t Wait To Be King.
We Labour voters can’t be too full of ourselves at the moment,
As there’s infighting aplenty and to the same refrain you mention.
Bangor could have said they would welcome the Reform speakers to a properly structured debate when they had a slot in their programme.
Can you imagine the ARRs coalition. They would be infighting like rats in a sack before the ink was dry on the election results. Maybe to a refrain of I Just Can’t Wait To Be King.
Ronib- I don't think this thread or any discussion about Reform/Frage is "hype" as such. I see it as debate and discussion of potential risks. I see it as opportunity to dissect and debate Reform's performance in Local Councils, Reform's propaganda and Reforms current media messages, ideology, culture, values etc etc. It may be too late to leave such debate for some future date imho...
I really do not want a leader like Trumping the UK thank you. I look at what he has done to University defunding in US with horror. I look at videos of shootings of citizens in the streets of Minnesota by ICE agents under the ideology of controlling borders with abhorrence. The sheer speed of Trump exerting such authoritarian control in this second term is not something to emulate in the UK. The fact Farage admires Trump and absorbs his ideology and absorbs/emulates his tactics with the aim of winning for electoral success is chilling.
Advance UK is joining up with Rupert Lowe’s party as a new and hopefully better option for the right wing. The election is 3 years away and all this hype about Reform is understandable but not at all likely to result in a Reform government.
Interestingly Italy has achieved stable government after a very difficult period so the UK might be better off with some form of compromise/coalition government? Eventually….
My trust in (some) politicians of all parties has been abandoned over the years. They seemingly promising to do something good then do the opposite. In my opinion they have managed to ruin this great country, but I will say this, if you would prefer to have a leader like Trump then vote Reform. Heaven help us if they get in.
1960srelic- Frage has changed his story quite a few times now- google the timeline of the different things he said- all minimising in nature, fails to take any accountability or responsibility, veering from cant remember, to inferring they are lying/making it up to well if I did make such comments no offence was intended...... No apology in the true meaning of the word to date.
By the way, has Farage properly apologised for his antisemitic remarks when he was at Dulwich College? All he has said so far, to the best of my knowledge, is that he is sorry people were upset. If he had said that he had grown out of that silly phase and was now a better person that would have been adequate.
We can only speculate what Sarah Pochin and Jack Anderton planned to speak about under the banner of 'free speech'. As they weren't invited free speech was not the issue. My worry is Reform seeking to control such university debating societies and threats of defunding if in government office if debating societies do not comply with Reform's coercion and control....
I think you are putting words into peoples mouths there. The principle of a student group, or any voluntary group, being told what it should or shouldn’t talk about by any other body is what is wrong.
It is about a culture within universities so it is perfectly fine to talk about it.
I also just smile about people worrying now about free speech when there is a risk that it is reform who 'controls' the speech.
Rosie51 14.14 "Of course we shouldn't wish to control.
But we've heard too often of instances where a previously invited speaker has been un-invited because a group of students don't want anybody to hear that speaker's views, and it's considered dangerous to continue. Surely that equally is not something we should endorse, control by one lot of students on another?"
That not what happened at Bangor University. I believe a university debating society, in a democratic country, should not be commanded/coerced/controlled by any government or political party. Political parties/governments in the UK have long allowed universities educational freedom- I would not want to vote for any party that seeks to change this freedom.
Your subject matter "previously invited speaker has been un-invited because a group of students don't want anybody to hear that speaker's views, (do you mean censorship?) and it's considered dangerous to continue" is a different topic. A thread about 'censorship', if thats what you are alluding to, seems like a separate thread as this one is specifically about the risk of Reform exerting authoritarian control and risk of university defunding due to none compliance if elected into government
2 VERY different issues.
I think it’s the people who run any group voluntarily that should make the decision. Pressure on them by others to do things in a different way is something they should be free to accept or not, but ultimately the committee of volunteers should make the decision.
Casdon
People and groups are surely free to discuss whatever they like in their own time if they organise it themselves. Other people choose themselves whether to turn up or not. I don’t think it’s something we should wish to control?
Of course we shouldn't wish to control.
But we've heard too often of instances where a previously invited speaker has been un-invited because a group of students don't want anybody to hear that speaker's views, and it's considered dangerous to continue. Surely that equally is not something we should endorse, control by one lot of students on another?
People and groups are surely free to discuss whatever they like in their own time if they organise it themselves. Other people choose themselves whether to turn up or not. I don’t think it’s something we should wish to control?
I think it is all part of an inability for people to be in the presence of people they disagree with, I don't think I can do anything to enforce it, but I think it has a detrimental effect on society.
I don’t know what you mean, no. I think student run groups are very different to the running of. University by employees.
That was completely different though Galaxy, he was offered a fellowship by one of the departments of the university, which the students protested about. It wasn’t their own society, run by them for fellow students.
I think it is a complex subject, I thought one of the most worrying things I once heard was when a university refused the presence of a pro life organisation at their freshers fayre, I am pro choice. It just keeps us all in our own 'silos' if you know what I mean.
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