Bill to allow 16 year olds to vote to be debated in parliament

Basgetti

keepingquiet

There are plenty of immature adults with mental ages of less than 16 who are already voting!

What difference will a few more make?

I think that 16 year olds who take the time and trouble to vote probably have an opinion worth listening to.
My 85 year old mother has dementia. She is entitled to vote. It’s a lottery.

Does your 85 year old mother with dementia actually vote though? Is she fully mobile to get to the polling station or has she applied for a postal vote? I'm guessing (happy to be corrected) that the answer to both is 'no'.

Never had a mortgage; never had to live alone, pay for rent, fuel or food, possibly not for clothes except fashion items.

Never had to decide if they can ever afford to have children.

Oreo

I don’t suppose your Mum with dementia does vote tho Basgetti
As for not in U turn territory tuliptree well that will make a change🤣

She does. Stepdad takes her. No idea who she votes for,

FranP

Never had a mortgage; never had to live alone, pay for rent, fuel or food, possibly not for clothes except fashion items.

Never had to decide if they can ever afford to have children.

Yes she does, Rosie51. My stepdad takes her to the polling station. No idea who she ticks.

FranP

Never had a mortgage; never had to live alone, pay for rent, fuel or food, possibly not for clothes except fashion items.

Never had to decide if they can ever afford to have children.

Nor had I when I first voted at 19, save handing over some of my wage to my mother as housekeeping.

I worked from age 16 (15 if you count holiday jobs) married at 20; the first time I had had my own home and paid a mortgage. It made no difference to my political views which are no different 50 years later.

Nowaday, many young adults are still living with their parents well into their 30s. By your argument, they shouldn't have a vote either.

Basgetti

FranP

Never had a mortgage; never had to live alone, pay for rent, fuel or food, possibly not for clothes except fashion items.

Never had to decide if they can ever afford to have children.

Yes she does, Rosie51. My stepdad takes her to the polling station. No idea who she ticks.

Thanks for the reply Bagsetti I'm assuming you quoted the wrong post (happens to us all at some time!).
I actually could in theory question whether your mother should still have the vote, but in the great scheme of things I doubt very much that significant numbers of people with advanced dementia actually vote to influence any result. I really think she will be in an insignificant minority of people with dementia who still vote. I hope she is happy in her dementia affected life.

I have a relative with dementia, she's been taken to vote. Don't think it would happen now as she's bedridden.

I wish they would make up their minds. They are either adults at 18 or 16 only adults should have a vote. If they want to give 16 year ilds the vote thrn they should make the age of everything 16. Which is ridiculous because 85% of parents still treat 16, 17 and even 18 year okds kike children.

Basgetti

Oreo

I don’t suppose your Mum with dementia does vote tho Basgetti
As for not in U turn territory tuliptree well that will make a change🤣

She does. Stepdad takes her. No idea who she votes for,

Well, it’s her right to do so but am surprised she bothers to do it.Maybe it’s a case of she votes for whoever your stepDad tells her to.

If Starmer thinks it will help his cause next time around to have 16 year olds voting, he could get a shock.
They’ll vote for the Greens and their wacky ideas if they remember to vote at all.

It’s been Labour policy for years Oreo, it’s not something Starmer dreamed up.

Thinking about this last night, it occurred to me that many of the reasons given here for denying the vote to 16 and 17 year olds were the very same reasons given by men, a 100 years ago and more, for denying the vote to women.

Casdon

It’s been Labour policy for years Oreo, it’s not something Starmer dreamed up.

I actually said ‘ if Starmer thinks it will help his cause’ i.e. Labour.
It’s quite cynical for them to pursue this 16 year olds vote idea and the joke will be on them if as predicted they vote for the Greens.

The impact of 16-18 year old voters on the results will be minimal. It’s a price Labour will have to pay if young people who would have chosen to vote for them vote elsewhere, and that’s fair enough I think. The point is though, Labour haters would be criticising them for not doing another thing that has been their policy for years and was in the manifesto if they didn’t do it - so they can’t win for some on this one whatever they do.

If we're going to use brain development as a reason not to give the vote to 16 yr olds then perhaps we should delay giving the vote to anyone under 25?

From AI

The human brain is generally considered fully developed around age 25.

Why 25?

The last major part of the brain to finish developing is the prefrontal cortex — the area responsible for:

Decision-making

Planning and long-term thinking

Impulse control

Risk assessment

Emotional regulation

This region continues maturing through the early and mid-20s.

"Cynical of the Labour Party to pursue this 16 year olds vote idea and the Koke will be on them if as predicted they vote for the greens".

More the case its cynical of those who seek to pin this "idea" on the Labour Party alone"- its a multi organisation coalition campaign, of some 18 years, including other political parties. It took until 2024 till Labour was in power to take action as the Conservative Party is one of the few parties that did not support the coalition and sought to vote the coalition down in debates.

Wikipedia: Votes at 16 is a campaign in the United Kingdom which argues in favour of the reduction of the voting age to 16 for all public elections. The campaign espouses several principles in favour of lowering the voting age.[1]
The Votes at 16 Coalition is a national group of major UK youth organisations, political parties and other supporters that campaign for 16 and 17 year olds to be able to vote in all UK public elections.[2][3] The coalition is led by a steering group of active members who include the British Youth Council, the Children's Rights Alliance for England, The Co-operative Group, the National Union of Students and the Scottish Youth Parliament. This group of organisations have been campaigning on Votes at 16 for a number of years and meet regularly to plan and develop the campaign. Other member organisations of the coalition consist of the Electoral Reform Society, YMCA, the National Youth Agency and the European Youth Forum among many more. The many, many, current member organisations supporting the coalition (listed on Wikipedia) including for example TUC, Barnado’s, SNP, Plaid Cymru, Scottish Greens, Electoral Reform Society, Liberal Democrats UK, Liberal Party, Unison etc etc.

Parliamentary activity
Aside from youth organisations, The Votes at 16 coalition has a vast supportive network of politicians who have backed the call to lower the voting age to 16 in the UK. These politicians range from local UK councils, Members of Parliament, Lords, and Members of European Parliament to Members of Scottish Parliament, Members of Legislative Assembly and Welsh Assembly Members. In 2008 members of the coalition met a few MPs ahead of the second reading of the Voting Age (Reduction) Bill in the UK Parliament, but the bill was talked down by Stewart Jackson, Conservative MP for Peterborough.[4] The Labour Party's Conference in 2008 voted to accept the recommendation of Labour's National Policy Forum to support Votes at 16.[5].

As only about half of adults actually bother to vote now then I wouldn’t think that most 16 year olds will bother!

Tuliptree

knspol

16 year olds have far too many other things to deal with, GCSE's, school, friendship groups, online activity, music, socialising, boyfriend/girlfriend issues etc etc. Imo they do not have the time (and probably the inclination) to spend the requisite amount of time to understand and decide which party they should vote for.

Whereas their parents have nothing to do but go out to work, raise the children, do the shopping, cook the meals, clean the house, do the washing and ironing, help out friends snd family, organise summer holidays, plan a birthday party, help with the homework, get quotes for house snd car renewal insurance. take thr car for its service … thank goodness they're not too busy

Tuliptree

As adults we all do all of those things and often many more but to us as adults they are our priorities/necessities. I think 16 yr olds have many different priorities and calls on their time that at their age are probably much more important to them rather than listening to the manifestos of various politicians and spending enough time to make the right decision for them.

icanhandthemback

There is ample of scientific evidence that there is a lack of consequences linked to actions in young people caused by the way the brain is maturing. The Prefrontal Cortex which is responsible for complex, rational, and long-term thinking is the last part to fully mature. Politically the parties might have their ideas but you can't just trounce science. That is what I base my argument against voting at 16.

As LemonJam has pointed out, the brain does not mature by 18 or even 21, so that would suggest that perhaps voting age should be in the mid-20s.

I was among those who were newly allowed to vote when we were 18. Society did not collapse. Now 16-year-olds in Scotland and Wales can vote, and - surprise, surprise - society has not collapsed. Anyway, if Nigel Farage is against it, that seems to me to be a good reason to go for it, whether that is voting at 16 or anything else.

Wheniwasyourage

icanhandthemback

There is ample of scientific evidence that there is a lack of consequences linked to actions in young people caused by the way the brain is maturing. The Prefrontal Cortex which is responsible for complex, rational, and long-term thinking is the last part to fully mature. Politically the parties might have their ideas but you can't just trounce science. That is what I base my argument against voting at 16.

As LemonJam has pointed out, the brain does not mature by 18 or even 21, so that would suggest that perhaps voting age should be in the mid-20s.

I was among those who were newly allowed to vote when we were 18. Society did not collapse. Now 16-year-olds in Scotland and Wales can vote, and - surprise, surprise - society has not collapsed. Anyway, if Nigel Farage is against it, that seems to me to be a good reason to go for it, whether that is voting at 16 or anything else.

True but every year you do get more brain maturity. At 16 that part of the brain is far more immature.

As LemonJam has pointed out, the brain does not mature by 18 or even 21, so that would suggest that perhaps voting age should be in the mid-20s

See my post a 11.30 am

The brain becomes fully matures in the mid 20s. Thereafter slowly declines/ages. This criteria is not applied to any consideration of voting cessation age- so not a commensurate argument. Plus the brain does not fully mature until mid 20s argument does not take into account 'capacity' in the run up towards full maturation, ie capacity at 16 compared to capacity at current voting age of 18 in England. Scientifically a 16 year old's brain, at that stage of development, is strong and capable of analytical processing. As I posted previously my criteria for making this decision is based on is a 16 year old capable of making a voting decision and would it be bad for society if given the vote. Many 16 years old realistically will not choose to vote- just as many people over 18 don't.

So yes they are capable- and no the evidence suggests in Scotland and other countries it hasn't been bad for society. What the research shows in Scotland is positive voting engagement of 16 years olds proportionately, across socio economic groups, possibly because they value being enfranchised and take an interest. And that their voting interest continues, again across socio economic groups, after they turn 18 and beyond which is of positive benefit to society. No negative outcomes were found.

Feel free to put forward any reasons why you personally may feel 16 year old should not be allowed to vote but the research evidence from Scotland shows it's been a good thing. That cant be argued with easily.

Having discussed politics with my 16 year old GS I think he knows more about it than many adults.
All my GCs have valid opinions and don't just vote for the party their family have always voted for like so many adults.
A yougov poll suggests that many young people up to age 24 will vote Greens.
I know not all 16 year olds may have the ability to vote wisely but I'm sure many adults don't either.

AGAA4- I have a 16 year old god daughter and share your experience. I remember being a 16 year old and my parents took the Daily Mail and my mother praised Maggie Thatcher to the hilt. I was interested in politics and read things in DM but also read other things at school and watched the news so developed my own opinions and views.

Then I got my vote at 18 and then waited for the election 1979 and did not vote for Maggie Thatcher. My Mum asked me who I voted for I answered its a secret ballot. Then she asked whether I was pleased MT won- I made the mistake in saying no. She hit the roof and I remember her saying 'we brought you up in the proper way- why would you vote for anyone but MT....' Actually, bless her, she brought me up to think for myself - job done.

MaizieD

^As LemonJam has pointed out, the brain does not mature by 18 or even 21, so that would suggest that perhaps voting age should be in the mid-20s^

See my post a 11.30 am

Sorry, MaizieD, I realise that you had said that, and I should have mentioned you , but I hadn't followed the whole thread as it developed, and so there are probably others whom I should have mentioned too.