Isn't Epstein really "The Billionaire Problem"

petra

It has long been known that up to 10% of bankers / financial services workers are psychopaths.

www.aru.ac.uk/news/psychopaths-prepared-to-spark-financial-crisis-for-profit#:~:text=Since%20I%20began%20researching%20corporate,people's%20money%2C%20has%20gained%20traction.

Can I yet again recommend the BBC series Industry that, if you can see beyond the rather pornographic element of it exposes the lives of people working in high finance. Having got to series 4 things that I found implausible before the Epstein files became more public now make sense. Whoever wrote it knows that world very well and it’s a world most of us can’t comprehend.

I looked up yesterday how he made his money, tbh it all sounded dodgy, no formal qualifications ( he dropped out of college) yet he seemed to climb ladder and "helped" people with their finances and recover money lost by financial firms. Multiple people seemed to trust him with their finances and he seemed to have the ear of the rich in many countries. It does make you think.

I should point out to Monica that I never said all millionaires are dishonest users. But quite a few are. I know that from personal experience in the past. You know, gaslighting is very irritating but I suppose it goes with online stuff. Not in my real life, thank goodness and I can honestly say not a single one of my friends would twist my words.

M0nica

David49

GrannyGravy13

Unfortunately MaizieD going belly up and restarting with different family members as directors/owners is a common occurrence.

No Government has taken steps to prevent this to my knowledge.

New companies should get proper scrutiny, a full audit every 6 months until they are proved legal.
It might stop genuine no fault failures too.

The cost of this would be prohibitive and out of proportion to the extent of the problem. Real crooks do not even set up companies legally, they jsut present themselves as a company and relie on customers not checking.

£46 billion pays for a lot of audits

Allira

nanna8

Do the billionaires in the uk not use off shore accounts so they don’t have to pay tax? I really don’t know but I would imagine they do. Cynically I tend to think many of these people have lied and cheated their way to wealth and that is how they got it in the first place. Ruthless intelligent scheming .

Why are only 100 people paying more than £11m in tax when the UK has 156 billionaires? Why are there some individuals worth over £10billion nowhere to be seen?
This year’s list reveals something else: one in nine of the top taxpayers live abroad (many in low‑tax jurisdictions).
taxjustice.uk/blog/where-are-all-the-billionaires-on-the-tax-list/

The fact that once the excessively wealthy have the wealth, which is our money which they have mostly acquired from either state contracts or us, the consumers of their product, they can move it to low tax jurisdictions is why I repeatedly say that we should act to modify the acquisition of that wealth, not try to tax it once it exists.

Allira

nanna8

Do the billionaires in the uk not use off shore accounts so they don’t have to pay tax? I really don’t know but I would imagine they do. Cynically I tend to think many of these people have lied and cheated their way to wealth and that is how they got it in the first place. Ruthless intelligent scheming .

Why are only 100 people paying more than £11m in tax when the UK has 156 billionaires? Why are there some individuals worth over £10billion nowhere to be seen?
This year’s list reveals something else: one in nine of the top taxpayers live abroad (many in low‑tax jurisdictions).
taxjustice.uk/blog/where-are-all-the-billionaires-on-the-tax-list/

They pay little UK tax because the money is held as business capital and property, tax is only due when you sell an asset.
The 2 that most have heard of is Jim Ratcliffe (INEOS) and Antony Bamford (JCB) their wealth is the valuation of their companies, not cash. Like your home it can't be spent, until it's part or all is sold it doesn't get taxed

The companies pay Corporation Tax in the normal way but personal tax is modest. Much of their social life is tied to the business, maintaining contact with investors and customers, sponsoring others. Only a billionaire can sponsor Man Utd, all sports clubs have wealthy sponsors, even your town football or rugby club will have sponsors.

nanna8

Do the billionaires in the uk not use off shore accounts so they don’t have to pay tax? I really don’t know but I would imagine they do. Cynically I tend to think many of these people have lied and cheated their way to wealth and that is how they got it in the first place. Ruthless intelligent scheming .

Why are only 100 people paying more than £11m in tax when the UK has 156 billionaires? Why are there some individuals worth over £10billion nowhere to be seen?
This year’s list reveals something else: one in nine of the top taxpayers live abroad (many in low‑tax jurisdictions).
taxjustice.uk/blog/where-are-all-the-billionaires-on-the-tax-list/

nanna8

Do the billionaires in the uk not use off shore accounts so they don’t have to pay tax? I really don’t know but I would imagine they do. Cynically I tend to think many of these people have lied and cheated their way to wealth and that is how they got it in the first place. Ruthless intelligent scheming .

I think that is avery unjust judgement on people who have great ideas that take off. Bill Gates, James Dyson came up with a good idea: Microsoft and a different type of vacuum cleaner, and many others too many to name. They were aall good business men and kne how to drive a hard bargain, but to say they all lied and cheatedn their may to wealth is a gross calumny.

Do the billionaires in the uk not use off shore accounts so they don’t have to pay tax? I really don’t know but I would imagine they do. Cynically I tend to think many of these people have lied and cheated their way to wealth and that is how they got it in the first place. Ruthless intelligent scheming .

David49

GrannyGravy13

Unfortunately MaizieD going belly up and restarting with different family members as directors/owners is a common occurrence.

No Government has taken steps to prevent this to my knowledge.

New companies should get proper scrutiny, a full audit every 6 months until they are proved legal.
It might stop genuine no fault failures too.

The cost of this would be prohibitive and out of proportion to the extent of the problem. Real crooks do not even set up companies legally, they jsut present themselves as a company and relie on customers not checking.

GrannyGravy13

Unfortunately MaizieD going belly up and restarting with different family members as directors/owners is a common occurrence.

No Government has taken steps to prevent this to my knowledge.

New companies should get proper scrutiny, a full audit every 6 months until they are proved legal.
It might stop genuine no fault failures too.

Unfortunately MaizieD going belly up and restarting with different family members as directors/owners is a common occurrence.

No Government has taken steps to prevent this to my knowledge.

David49

MaizieD

GG13 said

Taxes on businesses registered in the U.K. are collected regularly with penalties for late payment

Well, Im sorry, but reporting on the ‘tax gap’ in 2025, HMRC said that small businesses account for 40% of unpaid corporation tax. The value of the missing tax is estimated to be £,15 billion.

The total tax gap was estimated to be in the region of £46 billion.

taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/06/19/the-small-business-tax-crisis-40-of-tax-due-isnt-paid/

Yes the rules on setting up a company are too lax, it's easy to set up a company with deliberate intention of defrauding the revenue, not just corporation tax, VAT as well. Everything is rented no assets what so ever.
Trade for 2 yrs then declare company bankrupt, leaving unpaid tax and bank loans, it's very difficult to convict company directors of fraud. 3 out of 4 new companies fail within 3 yrs, it's all too easy.

The other drain on revenue is the black economy, individuals who pay no tax, often selling illegal products, or services for cash

Yup. Then start up another company.

Phoenix companies

www.gov.uk/government/publications/phoenix-companies-and-the-role-of-the-insolvency-service/phoenix-companies-and-the-role-of-the-insolvency-service

Maremia

Sorry GG13 I have no idea. Since we left the EU, the topic disappeared from our MSM.
Google might help you with that.

One of the reasons for Brexit was the origin of dodgy investments, invested in London, many/most of which were from Russia, oligarchs, moving to the UK etc.
That was all overshadowed by Ukraine sanctions, so the whole topic went off the agenda

Epstein and dumb clucks like Victoria Hervey - see today’s Telegraph - mean there’ll be no end to this sort of behaviour 🫤👍☘️

Sorry GG13 I have no idea. Since we left the EU, the topic disappeared from our MSM.
Google might help you with that.

MaizieD

GG13 said

Taxes on businesses registered in the U.K. are collected regularly with penalties for late payment

Well, Im sorry, but reporting on the ‘tax gap’ in 2025, HMRC said that small businesses account for 40% of unpaid corporation tax. The value of the missing tax is estimated to be £,15 billion.

The total tax gap was estimated to be in the region of £46 billion.

taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/06/19/the-small-business-tax-crisis-40-of-tax-due-isnt-paid/

What that report doesn’t say is why the SME’s haven’t paid the tax/es due.

Is it because they have gone into liquidation due to the current trading climate, or is it deliberate winding up of the business in order to avoid paying due taxes and all other financial obligations?

Two entirely different things.

Maremia

There was a proposal in the EU to change how the rich were taxed.
It has been claimed that BREXIT was manufactured because of this 'threat'.

Has the EU implemented their tax proposal since the U.K. has left the EU?

There was a proposal in the EU to change how the rich were taxed.
It has been claimed that BREXIT was manufactured because of this 'threat'.

MaizieD

GG13 said

Taxes on businesses registered in the U.K. are collected regularly with penalties for late payment

Well, Im sorry, but reporting on the ‘tax gap’ in 2025, HMRC said that small businesses account for 40% of unpaid corporation tax. The value of the missing tax is estimated to be £,15 billion.

The total tax gap was estimated to be in the region of £46 billion.

taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/06/19/the-small-business-tax-crisis-40-of-tax-due-isnt-paid/

Yes the rules on setting up a company are too lax, it's easy to set up a company with deliberate intention of defrauding the revenue, not just corporation tax, VAT as well. Everything is rented no assets what so ever.
Trade for 2 yrs then declare company bankrupt, leaving unpaid tax and bank loans, it's very difficult to convict company directors of fraud. 3 out of 4 new companies fail within 3 yrs, it's all too easy.

The other drain on revenue is the black economy, individuals who pay no tax, often selling illegal products, or services for cash

GG13 said

Taxes on businesses registered in the U.K. are collected regularly with penalties for late payment

Well, Im sorry, but reporting on the ‘tax gap’ in 2025, HMRC said that small businesses account for 40% of unpaid corporation tax. The value of the missing tax is estimated to be £,15 billion.

The total tax gap was estimated to be in the region of £46 billion.

taxpolicy.org.uk/2025/06/19/the-small-business-tax-crisis-40-of-tax-due-isnt-paid/

It's probable that there are no more abusers in the high income group than any other group, certainly there is plenty of abuse in the sex work industry.

It's just that celebrities get much more media attention, they are evil whatever their wealth

Maizie All businesses start as SMEs and grow. As David49 sats Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, even Epstein started from nothing and built the companyup.

The other uestion I would ask is we talk only about the millionaires/billionaures who hit the news, but in fact many very wealthy people do give considerable sum of money away. They set up charitable foundations. A famous one to do that is Bill Gates.

Look at Warren Buffett, still living in Omaha and known for his frugal life. 99% of his huge fortune is being donated to charity through Bill Gates' charitable foundation.

Does anyone know he name of the man who established ebay? Probably not, but he has pledged to give away most of his wealth in his lifetime and has set up several non-profit organisation to help do so.

Gates, Buffett, Pierre Omidyar (he dreamed up ebay) and many very rich people are giving their fortunes away, but of course we do not hear about the Omidyars and other givers because they are not in the media for extravagent living, screwing the poor or exploiting the vulnerable. They are just getting on with their lives.

The government is well aware of the importance of SMEs what most don't realize is that a private company can have wealth well into the £10s of millions. It's all tied up in buildings machinery and stock They might employ 100 workers they do not have spare cash to pay extra tax, they certainly gave to be very competitive with product pricing, whatever surplus cash goes into modernization to keep up with the opposition.

I think the government need to bring SME's into the conversation more often, Maizie. They are part of the "working people". You then have those who live month to month will little or nothing to fall back on plus those being supported by the social contract with the state. They are the "financially precarious or economically insecure" and finally the "high-net-worth individuals"

We use so many names for groups that people often see themselves in the wrong one. There are other names but whatever the government use they should offer a definitions and then use them - with the definition - until it is plain to everyone.