Eugenie and Beatrice

The casual way in which some people, men and women, use the word "sh****ng", always makes my toes curl. But for a mother to use it with reference to her own daughter, is beyond the pale.

It could be that I'm over-sensitive, and not very 'grown-up' about human relationships, because it is common-currency when talking about such for an awful lot of seemingly 'nice' people - but it feels degrading. to me.

The well-heeled and privileged can also present as vulgar oafs in Burberry it seems.

I absolutely don’t think B & E were anyway involved sexually with Epstein. More likely the Yorks dangled the girls like carrots in front of Epstein.
He in turn probably bragged about knowing them & things about them as Fergie obviously wasn’t discreet regarding their private lives.
I haven’t heard anything about Fergie being involved with him sexually.
Probably would have gotten Ghilain Maxwells back up, if she known anything about it.

You aren’t on your own Dickens, it’s a horrible word.
I could never imagine my mum using that about us girls.
I think she was trying to appear cool at her daughter’s expense. Or they might have that kind of open family, where they can talk like that.
The upper classes can come across like that.

TerriBull

Louise Windsor, the daughter of Edward and Sophie. So Edward being Andrew's brother has brought his children up not to be trailed by the press, insomuch like you Mollygo, people aren't even aware of who she is, quite a good thing I think.

Edward & Sophie, appear to have well grounded children. Lady Louise is lovely, I think she was very close to Prince Philip as he got her into carriage riding.
The boy, James I think? Is growing up to be a real good looking young man.
I can’t imagine Edward & Sophie being grifters.

Desdemona

At age 19 or 21 (as the girls were) I would have smelled a rat from a mile off, and been very aware of his convictions.

2 unsavoury facts I have learned today - Fergie and Epstein had sex numerous times and she was in love with him. Epstein was Cosmopolitan batchelor of the year in 1980.

Yuk.

Ohh- I wish I could unsee that. Put me off of my breakfast cereal 🤮

I suppose Fergie "had issues" is a "sex addict" and so on.

Awful people.

Whilst I do have some sympathy for them in a "sins of the Father" - and in this case Mother - type of way, I don't believe that they've been completely clueless about the extravagant lifestyle they've been party to. They don't seem to have had any scruples about accepting expensive jewellery or other gifts from their parent's "friends".

It was either contemptuous or naive of them to spend many years swanning off on exotic holidays every few weeks, but trying to peddle the working girl scenario via the press.

Beatrice has married into a massively wealthy family so she's nicely financially shielded.

Eugenie's husband isn't in quite the same league, but they're comfortable enough not to worry about bypassing Waitrose and going to Aldi instead.

Probably if they take a step back for a while they may not get tarnished with the same brush. They've both got young families to care for, homes here and abroad and husbands who can provide financially so they can fly under the radar for a while quite comfortably.

Totally agree Ferry exactly how I think and see it

Good post ferry23.
At least B and E don't appear to be limelight seeking individuals, so they have more chance of being left alone to live quiet lives.

Whilst I do have some sympathy for them in a "sins of the Father" - and in this case Mother - type of way, I don't believe that they've been completely clueless about the extravagant lifestyle they've been party to. They don't seem to have had any scruples about accepting expensive jewellery or other gifts from their parent's "friends"

It was either contemptuous or naive of them to spend many years swanning off on exotic holidays every few weeks, but trying to peddle the working girl scenario via the press

Totally agree - they were old enough to
Know and old enough to read the newspapers - they would have been aware!

It’s all speculation. I think they trusted their parents, and did what they had done all their lives, at 19 and 20 that’s quite normal. They appear to have had the sense to step back, say nothing, and keep out of the limelight. For me, that’s good enough, and unless evidence comes forward, I wish people would stop the witchunt and get off their backs.

It just exposes to me the way those with money and privilege live their lives- taught to speak correctly and set some sort of 'example' in public whilst their private lives would shock even the characters on Shameless.

It is time we stopped pretending these people are somehow 'better' than us and realise that beneath the veneer they are just like us, but in some cases, a whole lot worse.

Remember King Charles and his 'tampon' moment...disgusting and crude.

It is time we stopped pretending these people are somehow 'better' than us and realise that beneath the veneer they are just like us, but in some cases, a whole lot worse.

Whether you have a monarch or an elected leader, I think we need to think of them as "different", rather than better. Indeed, if you look at European monarchy, a lot of them are a darn site worse than most of us!

There has to be something that we perceive set these people aside from those they serve/rule over - however you want to couch it - otherwise it could all become quite anarchical.

If the will of the people were to abolish the monarchy it would have happened by now. We tried it once before and that didn't work so well! We need to see qualities in leaders that we can respect and perhaps admire and that persuade us they are worthy of leading or governing us.

Our late Queen was globally admired for her devotion to duty and was an amazing figurehead. The King doesn't hold quite the same "happy fuzzy" feelings for us, but he is more proactive than his Mother and as a transitional monarch, I think he will pave the way for a more modern and meaningful monarchy.

Casdon

It’s all speculation. I think they trusted their parents, and did what they had done all their lives, at 19 and 20 that’s quite normal. They appear to have had the sense to step back, say nothing, and keep out of the limelight. For me, that’s good enough, and unless evidence comes forward, I wish people would stop the witchunt and get off their backs.

👏👏👏

Regarding Charles and the 'tampon' - this was a private conversation between him and Camilla, two consenting adults. What people like to say to each other in those circumstances is none of anybody else's business.

1960srelic

Regarding Charles and the 'tampon' - this was a private conversation between him and Camilla, two consenting adults. What people like to say to each other in those circumstances is none of anybody else's business.

Yes but he is chosed by God to represent the nation.

It does matter.

It’s all speculation. I think they trusted their parents, and did what they had done all their lives, at 19 and 20 that’s quite normal

At 19 and 20 any young person knows if their parents have alcohol, drugs and gambling problem. They know if they have marital problems. In their case they would know just by reading the papers all that! But a lot was going g on right up to the age they are now - the papers were full of it around the time of both their weddings and the sheer extravagance of one of them in Windsor.
It’s not a witch hunt to ask searching questions of the misuse of the public purse!

It’s easy to judge from afar isn’t it? It’s amazing that you have got into their heads and knew what they were actually thinking when they were in their teens and twenty, but I don’t.
They are non working royals, they do not receive any salary or allowance from the public purse, so what exactly are we condemning them for, not publicly disowning their parents?

I think they will find it very difficult to distance themselves from their overpowering mother, who now has no apparent income, no-one to bail her out and again, and probably no home.

Yes, I’m sure you’re right. She will certainly need help from somewhere.

They did manage to attend the Royal Christmas celebrations, rather than stay with the parents.
Already made their choice?

I agree with Casdon. We are talking about children here when all this was kicking off, circa 2000. Many young teenagers have mixed up thoughts at that time in their lives.
They're too busy trying to keep their own heads above water and sort out their peer relationships without analysing media reports on their parents' friends. I would assume they found out later, but what a tangled web for them to discover!

Well sixanda half if Hes the best your god can do we,re all in deep trouble
Surely NOBODY believes in the divine right of kings? It’s the 21st century NOT the Middle Ages.
The “king” is a money grabbing adulterous ,charity scamming parasites.
Much like the rest of his family
Time they were all gone ,long past time in fact .the French got it right centuries ago!

Quote MartavTaurus Mon 09-Feb-26 09:16:40
Good post ferry23.
At least B and E don't appear to be limelight seeking individuals, so they have more chance of being left alone to live quiet lives.

They seems to enjoy Ascot, Buckingham palace garden parties, attending Church at Sandringham Christmas Day and accepting flowers from the crowds,,in fairness just as their mother

Don’t all the royals do those things though Anniebach? Edward and Sophie, and Anne and her husband’s children do too, so it not that Beatrice and Eugenie do anything to draw attention to themselves.