How long can Starmer survive? Getting popcorn ready 🍿🍿

kittylester

But, with Mandelson's reputation why on earth would anyone with sound judgement appointment him?

And is a man with such flawed judgment capable of running the country in these difficult times?

And, who appointed his advisors?

and who appointed his advisers He did 🤦🏼‍♀️

DaisyAnneReturns

This feels much more like political theatre than analysis.

On the facts: Starmer has acknowledged that he knew Mandelson had some contact with Epstein after 2008, but has said he did not know the extent of that relationship. When further information came to light, Mandelson was removed from his role and there is now cross-party pressure to release relevant files through proper parliamentary processes. That’s not stonewalling; it’s corrective action under scrutiny.

As for “he has to release everything he knows”, no Prime Minister can unilaterally dump intelligence or diplomatic material without legal and security constraints. That applies regardless of party.

The idea that Badenoch “roasted” him or that ministers “couldn’t look at him” is subjective performance commentary, not evidence of political collapse. PMQs is designed to generate clips, not sober judgment. Leaders have looked far worse in that chamber and survived far longer.

On Angela Rayner, again, there’s a lot of mind-reading going on. She dealt with her tax issue by referring herself to the appropriate processes and stepping back from roles, which is precisely what critics usually demand. There’s no evidence she’s “waiting to stab him in the back” beyond forum fantasy.

If you can criticise Starmer’s judgment on Mandelson without turning it into a soap opera about imminent coups and personal betrayal it might be worth discussing. However, thd truth is that politics is messy, but not every controversy is a death spiral.

He needs to go. End of. He know about Mandelsons friendship with Epstein when He gave him that plum Job in America. What a fool. As for Rayner, someone who forgets things like tax, still not repaid it yet? Sheis not fit for Office, public would be even more teed off, except Labour supporters I suppose, neither is Streeting, what did He know about the friendship, mandelson was his mentor. He is now stabbing him in the back. This traitorous, corrupt Gov needs to go. Rather have the Conservatives back. Badenock roasted him yesterday.

DaisyAnneReturns good post @ 9.29

I honestly thought his performance would be better, adults in the room and all that crap misplaced projection of faith in how they were going to perform. He doesn't seem to be able to read the room, which I find extraordinary. Right from the start with Lord Ali and the freebie spectacles and suits. Surely someone of his gravitas could see that would put him in a compromising position quite apart from the optics of how all that highly questionable benevolence would and was perceived by a strapped cash electorate.

I know Mandelson had some grandfather or other who was a prominent member in the Labour party of yesteryear, but I could never get my head round why he didn't just go off and join the Tories and have done with it. His whole raison d'etre gives off the air of following the money at any cost not to mention the social millieu he appears to immerse himself with. Often knocking around with his mate 10 jobs Osborne who doesn't even have an indoor lav it would seem, forcing poor old Mandleson to piss up against the outside wall of Osborne's Notting Hill home, or maybe that was just his way of telling him he didn't like the guacamole more commonly known as mushy peas served up at supper. Both photographed schmoozing on a yacht with oligarchs. Really there were no surprises as to his nefarious associations with Epstein. Of course Starmer knew about it, much of it was in the public domain anyway.

The implosion has been quite spectacular, the umpteen U turns, the lack of any business acumen from a completely incompetent Chancellor who seems hell bent on crippling businesses and increasing unemployment. The minister appointed with something to do with housing who ejected her tenants so she could get more money, the MP who has a multitude of uninhabitable filthy flat he lets out, quite contrary as to a basic level that would be acceptable apropos of their tenants' rights bill, Angela Rayner and her bad advice regarding what she should have paid in stamp duty. Bridget Phillipson's shilly shallying around fully adopting the court ruling around Women Only Spaces even though the interminable message from Starmer is "we must obey the letter of the law" Oh yes Grooming Gangs Enquiry kicked into the long grass just wondering if I've forgotten anything!

Yep right up there with the Boris' shit show who'd have thought!

Starmer will stay. There's no obvious replacement, the Cabinet are not in open revolt and local elections are due. Most Labour MPs criticising him openly are the usual suspects.

this traitorous corrupt government needs to go so we can have another corrupt government in its place?

Primrose53

Puts Boris Johnson’s birthday cake incident well in the shade though! Just remembering the pages and pages of comments about that on here and we all know how that ended.

Birthday cake? What about him illegally trying to prorogue parliament? Being photographed hung over returning from a party with Lebedev ( who then got a knighthood). Please don’t try to make people think that partygate was his only transgression. And there are also links with Bannon and Epstein regarding Brexit ( that is mentioned in the files).

I cringed at the time at that whole 'adults in the room' nonsense. The same concept was projected onto Sturgeon, again that didn't end well.

I wish Starmer would just go. He’s been a disaster since day one, the worst PM ever. He should now show a little grace and bow out. The people on this forum are the only ones I have come across who love him and are in a minority . Ostrich syndrome.

I doubt Starmer will survive this, and he probably doesn't deserve to do so; but this is not a time for popcorn and blatant gloating at his downfall. This is a very serious state of affairs for the country as a whole, and it looks as though it is being managed by malign forces who have been playing us for a long time. We don't know what more is going to come out. We do know that figures across the political spectrum have been implicated in this, and it is leaving the UK vulnerable at a time of global insecurity.

Whatever happens, it won't be 'end of' 🙄. It will have repercussions that will last for many years, and who knows what will happen to undermine our democracy further. I'm with those in the 'sad and frightened' corner. I have no interest in jeering and popcorn-eating.

“And there are also links with Bannon and Epstein regarding Brexit ( that is mentioned in the files).” MayBee70

I feel sure there are many more connections to people in high places that will come out of the files.

petra

kittylester

But, with Mandelson's reputation why on earth would anyone with sound judgement appointment him?

And is a man with such flawed judgment capable of running the country in these difficult times?

And, who appointed his advisors?

and who appointed his advisers He did 🤦🏼‍♀️

I am extremely surprised at some of Starmer's decisions.

I hoped for someone who would be a calm and steady leader who was also incisive and thorough, with integrity, not someone who could overlook rumours and transgressions of those he was appointing to represent our country overseas.
Perhaps he thought, as some of us did before we knew all the facts, that the wily Mandelson would be the right person to deal with Trump.

He must wonder now who he can trust in the cesspit.

It may put Johnson's birthday cake shenanigans in the shade but not his lying to the Queen, illegal partying on the eve of Prince Philip's funeral, the VIP procurement fraud, and the illegal proroguing of Parliament.
People can have short memories.

This is a very serious state of affairs for the country as a whole, and it looks as though it is being managed by malign forces who have been playing us for a long time. We don't know what more is going to come out. We do know that figures across the political spectrum have been implicated in this, and it is leaving the UK vulnerable at a time of global insecurity.

This is what is terrifying.

Yes Allira, but now they are being unmasked.

nanna8

I wish Starmer would just go. He’s been a disaster since day one, the worst PM ever. He should now show a little grace and bow out. The people on this forum are the only ones I have come across who love him and are in a minority . Ostrich syndrome.

Worse than Truss and Johnson? Come on. You’ve hated him from the start and are revelling in all this . Imo the situation regarding Mandelson giving Epstein insider information during the financial crisis should be getting more publicity. Everyone involved with Epstein is tainted by knowing him but Keir ( who I would imagine had no dealings with him) seems to be the one getting the most criticism. Imo the person who needs to go is McSweeney ( who I’ve never trusted).

Allira

^This is a very serious state of affairs for the country as a whole, and it looks as though it is being managed by malign forces who have been playing us for a long time. We don't know what more is going to come out. We do know that figures across the political spectrum have been implicated in this, and it is leaving the UK vulnerable at a time of global insecurity.^

This is what is terrifying.

Yes, it is. I’m horrified that some people seem to view this terrible situation as some sort of reality show, for entertainment.
I’m also very concerned that in the clamour for “transparency” in releasing every document, the case against Mandelson could be jeopardised.

kittylester

So should he still be the one doing it. But who would be caoable out of his probable successors?

Wes Streeting?

By the way I think the popcorn reference in the OP is pretty distasteful. Given the political problems, both domestic and international, this is not a situation that someone should treat in such a lighthearted way. The last thing we need at the moment is an unstable government and it’s disgusting that some people on this forum are revelling in it.

MayBee70

By the way I think the popcorn reference in the OP is pretty distasteful. Given the political problems, both domestic and international, this is not a situation that someone should treat in such a lighthearted way. The last thing we need at the moment is an unstable government and it’s disgusting that some people on this forum are revelling in it.

Hear, hear.

Calendargirl

kittylester

So should he still be the one doing it. But who would be caoable out of his probable successors?

Wes Streeting?

No.

Yvette Cooper? But is she tough enough?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn’t it? The number of high profile figures in politics and journalism now scrabbling to delete any digital evidence of ever having revered Mandelson.

How about some foresight?

Tony Benn on Peter Mandelson in 1987: “Today we had a meeting of the NEC & the Shadow Cabinet. Kinnock introduced the meeting & spoke for about twenty minutes. We went on to Peter Mandelson who said a few words. I find Mandelson a threatening figure for the future of the Party.”

Benn and others on the left had the measure of Mandelson over 30 years ago, while Blair and later Starmer did not.

GrannyGravy13

This isn’t the time for an election within the Labour Party, too much going on in the wider world and the U.K. needs a steady hand on the tiller.

Saying that the Mandelson issue is not going anywhere soon, it’s obvious that he was appointed as ambassador despite KS being informed by a FT journalist about his close links with Epstein.

Either KS is being swayed by someone else, or he is not good a making judgements in the UK’s best interests.

Steady hand? Yesterday Starmer hands looked anything but steady, after the grilling by KB.

Oh no, not Yvette Cooper!

She’d be out of her depth, she was as Home Secretary.

Calendargirl

Oh no, not Yvette Cooper!

She’d be out of her depth, she was as Home Secretary.

Oh, ok!
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