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Rachel Reeves said *WHAT*!

(92 Posts)
MaizieD Fri 30-Jan-26 13:16:45

LAst night I discovered that Rachel Reeves, I think in the context of being interviewed about student loans, had this to say:

"It is not right that people who don't go to university bear the cost for others to"

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that.

Leaving aside the point which I have made over and over again, that taxation doesn't fund spending because:

1) all money comes from the state, either by way of its direct spending on goods and services or via commercial bank loans, made under licence from the state.

2) Spending comes before taxation as without state spending money there would be no money to tax back

So no-one but the state itself is bearing the cost of University education.

Reeves' statement seems to me to be to be contradicting the Labour principles behind the provision of 'public goods' one of which is universal education. But, worse than that, it is promoting an attitude which has no logic. There are lots of services provided by the state which not everyone benefits from; we don't all use the courts, we don't all make heavy demands on the NHS, some people pay for private health services and don't use it al all, we don't all have children in state schools (understand that I'm using 'we' to encompass the whole UK population) to name but a few examples.

Reeves' statement makes it seem reasonable that people should complain and feel resentful about the state financing services which they themselves don't use. Where on earth is her 'reasoning' meant to lead us?

Are we to make an annual declaration of the state financed services we do use and receive a tax rebate to cover the cost of services we don't use?

Is it permission to resent and demonise those who do make more use of state provision than we do? (and heaven knows, there's more than enough of that going on already)

Is it move towards the privatisation and marketisation of all services so we can choose and pay for whichever ones we need (if we can afford it)?

Of course, since Thatcher, there has been an ideological move towards privatisation of as much state provision as governments can get away with because that is a driving feature of the neoliberal economic strategy which has informed government policy since then. It is still ongoing. How many people are able to get NHS dental treatment? How many private care providers are there, the numbers increasing as councils become more and more cash strapped?

I realise that there are differences of opinion over the balance between private and state funded services but I have always regarded Labour as. at heart, being in favour of state provision to ensure that all citizens have access to essential services.

That Reeves' apparent defence of the student loans which impose a heavy long term burden on those aspiring to better themselves through a university education and who in part comprise the teachers, nurses and doctors who are vital to the health and wellbeing of the population really worries me.

But her implication that a university education is a personal indulgence which doesn't deserve the support of the government and state support can be justifiably resented by those who don't go to university utterly astounds and sickens me.

I don't think Reeves has a single vaguely left wing, Labour principled bone in her body, she is in the wrong party and is totally unsuitable for high office in a Labour government.

Mollygo Fri 30-Jan-26 18:01:54

This thread carries some of the most sensible comments about Rachel Reeves that I’ve read for a long time.
Would she transfer that comment to say
“Unfair that those who don’t go to work should be funded by those who do?”

Wyllow3 Fri 30-Jan-26 18:10:21

Somewhat different.

A society with a caring welfare and health system will fund at least at a basic level those who are in need and have no choice but to rely on the state, including those of us who are older or disabled.

It is a choice to become a university student. Its all very complex, but not comparable in any way.

MaizieD Fri 30-Jan-26 18:22:37

I don't understand what you are saying, Wyllow.

Is it that you think free education should stop at age 18 and that university after that should be paid for, either directly or on tick?

So university education becomes more elite, only available to those who can afford to pay, or who are prepared to be paying a 'graduate tax' in the form of loan+ interest repayments for decades after obtaining their degree? hmm

Galaxy Fri 30-Jan-26 18:32:18

Many many people resent ( often quite rightly) those who don't work, particularly if there are concerns around the legitimacy of that non working.
I can completely understand why those on minimum wage might feel some level of resentment towards my middle class children receiving a grant towards university education which will more than likely give them a non minimum wage career.

Maremia Fri 30-Jan-26 18:33:49

Yes, that attitude is concerning.

Ilovecheese Fri 30-Jan-26 19:20:34

Those of us who are retired from work are being funded, at least in part, by those who are still working. I think some of them resent us for that. Remarks such as Reeves made will only increase that resentment.

Wyllow3 Fri 30-Jan-26 19:42:13

MaizieD

I don't understand what you are saying, Wyllow.

Is it that you think free education should stop at age 18 and that university after that should be paid for, either directly or on tick?

So university education becomes more elite, only available to those who can afford to pay, or who are prepared to be paying a 'graduate tax' in the form of loan+ interest repayments for decades after obtaining their degree? hmm

I've not said any of those things, stop putting words into my mouth.

I've said very little upthread, just ideally university education should be paid for but I questioned seriously whether we could just carry on as we are with the numbers going to uni, and also I questioned just how good the education some are getting is, and should be re look at post 18 education more broadly.

Wyllow3 Fri 30-Jan-26 19:42:58

"should we look at post 18 education more broadly".

Oreo Fri 30-Jan-26 20:37:43

Wyllow3

Somewhat different.

A society with a caring welfare and health system will fund at least at a basic level those who are in need and have no choice but to rely on the state, including those of us who are older or disabled.

It is a choice to become a university student. Its all very complex, but not comparable in any way.

It’s not complex at all, I don’t know why you’re giving credence to Reeves’ nonsense about students.

Wyllow3 Fri 30-Jan-26 20:46:39

Yawn.

Oreo Fri 30-Jan-26 20:50:02

🙄

MaizieD Fri 30-Jan-26 21:35:26

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post, Wyllow.

I was puzzled as to what making a choice to go to university had to do with what Reeves said.

Wyllow3 Fri 30-Jan-26 21:40:54

MaizieD, thanks: I did say I believed in free education first time round, but was pondering beyond her statement to a number of things - the quality of what many students are getting, and of course getting a job (and then beyond to what wasnt said, like the situation we find ourselves in where despite people not having to pay back until they earn enough do find it an unbearable burden to start young lives with and so on...and people who resent paying for others education (even tho its not quite that simple.....

- rather than outright condemnation of what she said I'd like it to be looked at in depth.

Basgetti Sat 31-Jan-26 09:50:32

Shocked to see an interview on Newsnight couple of days ago. Newly qualified doctor, in training to become a paediatrician, had £45,000 of debt when he completed his basic training. He’s now repaid nearly £10,000 but because of changes to the scheme, he still “owes” around £70,000!
Appalling.

Hilltop Sat 31-Jan-26 10:31:49

The student 'loan' is not now like a normal loan where a person borrows money and then later pays it back with a reasonable amount of interest. The government are acting like loan sharks with student debt now. The interest, and other conditions with it, are unfair.

Graphite Sat 31-Jan-26 10:40:53

It is a choice to become a university student.

I suppose it is but if every potential student chose not go up because of the crippling debts they will be left with, then we would soon be in trouble for want of qualified people to do the jobs we depend on.

It isn’t only doctors who go to university. Nurses, paramedics and the myriad of other professions that provide health care services; the pharmacists, the technicians operating the complex range of diagnostic tools and interpreting the data, blood scientists to name a few.

I can think of any number of professions that depends on the knowledge and skills acquired from tertiary level education.

To my knowledge, Reeves wasn’t commenting on the quality of tertiary education or whether some degrees are deemed more useful than others, a very subjective and dangerous path to go down imo.

What she was doing was that cheap, easy appeal to people who think their pockets are being picked to subsidise others while they, of course, are 100% self-funding. Show me a person who is.

Galaxy Sat 31-Jan-26 10:52:06

But society couldn't survive without those who work in shops, those who provide care for the elderly, etc ( we found this out in a fairly brutal way during the pandemic).
People aren't not choosing not to go to university are they, because the middle classes know it is a way to a well paid career.

MaizieD Sat 31-Jan-26 11:08:57

What she was doing was that cheap, easy appeal to people who think their pockets are being picked to subsidise others while they, of course, are 100% self-funding. Show me a person who is.

This is what I was so angry about.

By using this meme she was completely betraying the Labour principle of funding universal provision of public goods by apparently agreeing with people who seem to resent the fact that some people are being funded for something they themselves neither want nor feel the need for. Not just agreeing, but, by being the Chancellor, an authoritative figure, actually encouraging them to think like that.

Allira Sat 31-Jan-26 11:10:57

Hilltop

The student 'loan' is not now like a normal loan where a person borrows money and then later pays it back with a reasonable amount of interest. The government are acting like loan sharks with student debt now. The interest, and other conditions with it, are unfair.

I don't know what the interest rate is now on student loans but I do know that the rules regarding repayment have changed so much over the years that some will find their loans, if not paid off in full, will be written off after a certain time, that time being variable, others will not, the rates of interest are variable.

It's arbitrary and unfair.
University fees for British students studying in British universities should be abolished. Living expenses are so high no wonder students end up with eye watering debt.
The fees were introduced by Labour which seemed to be against their principles, yet at the same time Blair's Government encouraged more school leavers to aim for university education.

MaizieD Sat 31-Jan-26 11:14:04

People aren't not choosing not to go to university are they, because the middle classes know it is a way to a well paid career

When one reads of graduates working as baristas and unemployed medical school graduates one wonders how much young people believe the idea that a degree leads to a well paid career. Especially if it means paying off a student loan which appears to increase as it's paid off rather than diminish.

Allira Sat 31-Jan-26 11:24:36

I do remember that "joke" that did the rounds years ago, something like
Q "What do you say when you meet an Oxford graduate?"
A "A Big Mac and French fries, please".

Young relative had just graduated from Oxford at that time, she didn't work in Macdonald's but didn't exactly get her dream job straight away but she worked.

However, I'm sure that graduates from that era will have progressed from their temporary jobs working in Macdonald's into more interesting and lucrative careers.
And at least they were working pro tem and probably didn't have such huge student debt.

MaizieD Sat 31-Jan-26 12:02:50

Doodledog

*with parental income assessment for maintenance grants to help poorer individuals is what I will argue against.* ^If somebody's parents are unwilling to financially support them in further education, are you quite happy for that individual to be denied their opportunity? Basic maintenance grants should be available to all.*
Agreed. It's either that or make contributions compulsory, and there would be numerous problems with that.

Also, one of the many problems with means-testing based on household income is that it is made up in different ways. Why should a family with two workers earning £20k each lose out, when a student from another with a single earner on £39k gets a grant because the other parent is unwilling to get a job? Maybe if a cut-off were set by dividing the income by the number of adults in the household it would be fairer. But then what about people who can't work for good reasons?

Obviously those figures are made up, but the point is that means-testing is such a blunt instrument.

I seem to recall that in the past student grants were tapered according to parental income rather than arbitrarily means tested.

I do think that there will be an element of unfairness for some in whatever system is used to assess receipts of such things as grants or benefits, Perhaps the most that can be done is to mitigate it as far as is possible.

nanna8 Sat 31-Jan-26 12:18:25

Tell you what, why should people who have no children pay towards education? Why should people who are not ill pay for medicines and hospitals ? Just get rid of the stupid woman, she is a disgrace. Certainly not a Labour believer.

Grantanow Sat 31-Jan-26 12:24:18

Rosie51

Grantanow I agree, MaizieD. Education like other public services is a public good from which we all benefit and it should be funded through general taxation as it once was with parental income assessment for maintenance grants to help poorer individuals.

with parental income assessment for maintenance grants to help poorer individuals is what I will argue against. If somebody's parents are unwilling to financially support them in further education, are you quite happy for that individual to be denied their opportunity? Basic maintenance grants should be available to all.

No, if parents won't sign the form ( as sometimes happened in former times through ignorance, bad attitude to higher education, estrangement or sheer bloodymindedness) then the student should be assisted. It wd be possible to require parents' employers to provide salary information or extract income data via HMRC.

Rosie51 Sat 31-Jan-26 12:29:21

Grantanow

Rosie51

Grantanow I agree, MaizieD. Education like other public services is a public good from which we all benefit and it should be funded through general taxation as it once was with parental income assessment for maintenance grants to help poorer individuals.

with parental income assessment for maintenance grants to help poorer individuals is what I will argue against. If somebody's parents are unwilling to financially support them in further education, are you quite happy for that individual to be denied their opportunity? Basic maintenance grants should be available to all.

No, if parents won't sign the form ( as sometimes happened in former times through ignorance, bad attitude to higher education, estrangement or sheer bloodymindedness) then the student should be assisted. It wd be possible to require parents' employers to provide salary information or extract income data via HMRC.

What would be the point of getting employers to provide salary information? Unless you were then going to legally compel parents to financially support their adult child?