What is the future if the Trans Atlantic Aliance and Nato?

Wyllow3

No, we don't forget it. We work hard with, for example, Canada, for best outcomes for democracy, whatever the outcome with the USA.

Absolutely this.

Wonder which 'group' China would join?

Nato countries will never ask the US to leave, it is in all of our interests that the US stays in. It doesn't mean, however, that the European countries can't have alliances and start developing less reliance on American technology.

Good choice by Canada. The Saab Gripen E is an amazing aircraft (so was the Saab Viggen in its day). Bang up to date and fully NATO integrated, as all equipment must be going forward if we are to survive. There were some issues about its operational costs initially but they appear to have been overcome.

Wyllow3

No, we don't forget it. We work hard with, for example, Canada, for best outcomes for democracy, whatever the outcome with the USA.

I agree, NATO can go on, USA can leave, or be asked to leave.

I’m guessing it’ll be USA, Russia, Israel, sticking together.

Canada, Europe and possibly some parts of Asia together.

Then the rest of the world either neutral or picking sides.

America, however much Trump believes it, does NOT rule the world.

The rest of our works leaders need to grow a pair, get their acts together and show a united front.

Nato countries have a huge reliance on American military technology and equipment, it will take a long time to disentangle ourselves. It give the US a great deal of power over us, however it also means that America gets it's own military power at a lower cost and often is able to sell off it's redundant equipment to it's allies. So it is to some degree a symbiotic relationship and therefore, I think it's highly unlikely that the US will stop selling us the military equipment we need and I doubt it will ditch membership of Nato.

It seems that Canada may have cancelled it's order for the remaining F-35s that it was buying from the US and will be buying Sweden's Gripen fighters instead. The US makes a huge amount of money out of selling armaments to it's Nato allies so I think Nato is safe for the immediate future and once Trump has gone, as long as Europe takes on more responsibility for it's own defence, then I think it will stay together. Trump's board of Peace is not about peace it's about making money for Trump.

All it needs is one person like Hitler, Putin or Napoleon to whip up ambition or hatred and ignite a war. Also religious differences have and still are used as justification for conflict.

Too early to tell what will ensue.

keepingquiet

When was Germany our closest ally? Not sure I'm following your argument here.
We didn't go to war against Germany in WW2, we fought against the Third Reich, Fascism and Adolf Hitler.

Germany was a close ally until WW1.

We’d had a German monarchy since the early 18thC. Our monarchs rarely went outside the Germanic states for their consorts. Kaiser Wilhelm was Queen Victoria’s grandson. WW1 & WW2 were aberrations as far as Anglo German relationships were concerned. I agree with David…

Now France, that's altogether a different kettle of fish…

We went to war with Germany. As people keep saying facts matter.

I think NATO will be fine and survive Trump.

keepingquiet

When was Germany our closest ally? Not sure I'm following your argument here.
We didn't go to war against Germany in WW2, we fought against the Third Reich, Fascism and Adolf Hitler.

That’s splitting hairs.
There was also WW1 with no Nazis at all.

When was Germany our closest ally? Not sure I'm following your argument here.
We didn't go to war against Germany in WW2, we fought against the Third Reich, Fascism and Adolf Hitler.

Centuries

keepingquiet

DaisyAnneReturns

keepingquiet

The US won't pull out. Trump is now claiming he has strengthened NATO, which was his aim all along.
Of course he would claim the glory whist doing absolutely nothing except shoot his mouth off, which is all he ever does.
NATO may change, but it will adapt to what is necessary for the protection of its member states.

And you know this how?

Well I don't have a crystal ball but European alliances are part of the fabric of its history and its strength. We were allies long before the US ever came into being.
That is the thing that won't change.

Thats why we fought two world wars against our closest ally Germany. The truth is Europe has been at each others throat for cebturkes its on.y since WW2 and the EU that has meant peace for 75 yrs, one system nobody can get advantage.

DaisyAnneReturns

keepingquiet

The US won't pull out. Trump is now claiming he has strengthened NATO, which was his aim all along.
Of course he would claim the glory whist doing absolutely nothing except shoot his mouth off, which is all he ever does.
NATO may change, but it will adapt to what is necessary for the protection of its member states.

And you know this how?

Well I don't have a crystal ball but European alliances are part of the fabric of its history and its strength. We were allies long before the US ever came into being.
That is the thing that won't change.

I would have thought its these informal personal relationships within different groups from different countries, family meet ups, etc, that form the real, key bonds that hold NATO together as much as the generals .

I hope that the US servicemen and women who are experiencing time at NATO bases at the moment will be absorbing the value of the organisation and can be keepers of the flame, in the same way as those who served alongside NATO troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The US would be weaker without Nato. It would not be in their own interests to pull out but with Trump anything is possible.

keepingquiet

The US won't pull out. Trump is now claiming he has strengthened NATO, which was his aim all along.
Of course he would claim the glory whist doing absolutely nothing except shoot his mouth off, which is all he ever does.
NATO may change, but it will adapt to what is necessary for the protection of its member states.

And you know this how?

On the other hand, Putin has not covered himself in glory over Ukraine.

Yes, it has been a wake up call.

The US won't pull out. Trump is now claiming he has strengthened NATO, which was his aim all along.
Of course he would claim the glory whist doing absolutely nothing except shoot his mouth off, which is all he ever does.
NATO may change, but it will adapt to what is necessary for the protection of its member states.

Homestead62

NATO is finished. We need to forget about the USA.

That's alright then.

Perhaps you could tell us who don't know all the answers - if the U.S. pulled out of NATO, removed their troops, weapons (including nuclear), stops access to intelligence and all nato agreed funding, will Europe be able to defend itself, or would Russia take advantage?

I, and many governments would like to know.

Well I wasnt in the military but it breaks my heart to see those who used to work together often for peacekeeping now at loggerheads, imposed upon them from on high.