Andrew Gwynne, Labour MP for Gorton and Denton is standing down because of ill health. Thus provoking a great deal of speculation as to who will stand in his place.

I looked at the detail of the constituency, and if he wants to win that seat he needs to button it quickly as there is a significant ethnic minority population.
www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Gorton%20and%20Denton

I do have concerns, but my prime concern is the Reform Candidate to be honest.

GB News' Matt Goodwin has claimed non-white people cannot truly be English. He said if we'd listened to Tommy Robinson and the English Defence League, we would have "avoided some of the problems" we face today.

He complained about our civilisation being “drained away” by “people from inferior cultures”.

He's even suggested women should be told when they should have children

I understand Starmer and ministers use of ‘working people ‘.

The working class traditionally got their hands dirty and earned less than your average ‘white collar worker. I might be castigated for saying that often working class is used to describe benefit claimants.

No, neither do I. But including passive income with earned income would put tax take up too.

I can see no reason why all taxes shouldn’t go up if we want better services.

Oreo

If we use the phrase working class tho less defined than it used to be ( manual labour) people here understand the phrase and our country is mainly made up of those ‘regular guys’ if preferred.Which is why taxes across the board need to go up as there will never be enough produced by just squeezing the very rich.

I think the majority agree on a progressive tax system as we have now. It’s the tweaks and loopholes that tend to be debated.

Where income is earned from wealth, I can see absolutely no reason why it shouldn’t be treated as income, with all earned and passive income added together and taxed accordingly. I can see no moral reason for not doing that.

If we use the phrase working class tho less defined than it used to be ( manual labour) people here understand the phrase and our country is mainly made up of those ‘regular guys’ if preferred.Which is why taxes across the board need to go up as there will never be enough produced by just squeezing the very rich.

They use regular guy or regular Joe in the US.It’s never caught on here.
They don’t have an overt class system but nevertheless it’s still there.

Oreo

The majority of the country is working class ( I know defining that isn’t what it was) and they want a country that works for them.
Labour used to fit the bill and now sadly it doesn’t.

I do like the American English, “regular people” it's an informal, non-technical term generally referring to people who:

*Work for wages or salaries
*Depend on the economy functioning (jobs, prices, healthcare, housing)
*Are not insulated from everyday financial risk

It overlaps with what the UK might call 'working class' with what we might call the 'middle class', but avoids explicit class language. High-earning professionals can still be “regular people” if they need to work and are economically exposed. Overall it's less about income level and more about having to participate in ordinary economic life rather than being protected by wealth.

Americans are culturally uncomfortable with rigid class labels so this works for them. Every time I think we have grown out of the "class" labels of old, something happens to show how much the still matter, still have influence, still make "working class" difficult to define

Certainly a lot of young voters liked Corbyn ( remember Glasto?) but it didn’t translate to actual votes.It could be that Reform will be similar but the age of the voters will be anything from younger to old and middle aged and older people actually go out and vote.The electorate are unhappy and if things stay the same in a few years then they are willing to try something different.

Possibly at the last election, the majority in the country voted to see an end to the Conservative party's long reign? It was a record low turnout, the lowest since 1928, Labour secured just over a third of the vote but a large majority of seats.

Starmer's relatively calm, competent style in comparison I agree is a welcome relief after recent Tory PMs. Burham is also relatively calm, competent and has a history of many successes in Greater Manchester and has won three successive mayoral elections. In my view he would also be competent on the world stage. But if competence is the defining positive characteristic- why so many U turns under Starmer domestically? I didn't expect to see a Labour government scrap state support for pensioners and disabled people, introduce one of the harshest asylum systems in Europe and lock up elderly people holding placards opposing genocide. If Starmer is so competent why does he have a net favourability rating of -57?

I shudder to think that Farage/ Reform UK may win the next election. Thus to protect its third share of the public vote and have the chance of a second term, Labour needs to reflect how it's going to secure success.

Starmer and the NEC's decision to block Burnham makes sense if it is to protect Starmer as PM. To me it doesn't make sense in the context of strengthening the chances of winning a second term and risk undermining Starmer's position further. In my view he would have been stronger to allow Burnham to stand and take his chances.

Starmer will continue to face leadership challenge with or without Burham in the mix. He will possibly face a vote of no confidence if May election results poor. A loss of a Labour MP at the Gorton and Denton by-election, if that happens will exacerbate party factions and turn the focus back to Starmer's defensive decision- making.

60% of labour members polled thought Burnham should have been allowed to stand as MP in the by election. Labour members also said they prefer Burham to Starmer as Labour leader by 48% to 26% and the only one among senior labour figures to score a positive public rating. Wes Streeting scores next but much lower than Burnham. He still remains as challenging, bombastic contender though much less liked by the public.

I shudder at the thought of a Reform UK government being successful at the next election. I would much prefer a Labour government. Decisions that put party first rather than protecting Starmer as PM seems the most sensible way to go.

Yes, not just one poll though, polling between elections, as is the case now with Reform. There was a huge pro Corbyn surge, then the doubts set in. I think people go along with tides.

From a poll?
I never met one single voter from any political affiliation that thought he would be any good. And he tanked Labour in the election.

Funnily enough Oreo, at one point in time a higher percentage of the electorate were saying they would vote for Corbyn than are now saying they would vote for Reform. The electorate is very fickle.

Nobody wanted Corbyn apart from the comparatively few very leftwing.
Most people wanted a change from the Conservatives which is why Labour won last time.
It’s incredibly doubtful after 18 months of mistakes they will win again at the next GE.

So the majority in the country voted for 14 year Tory government and certainly didn’t want Corbyn ?

The majority of the country is working class ( I know defining that isn’t what it was) and they want a country that works for them.
Labour used to fit the bill and now sadly it doesn’t.

Wyllow3

Whats depressing is, when you actually speak to people on the door canvassing, how little many know what Reforms policies actually are, and don't really actually even know what they are on immigration, except a vague feeling

"They will stop it and that will solve all the other problems" Scary.

Are you out canvassing Wyllow3 ?

It’s like a ballet dance.

Castigating even.

I didn't start the castigated I responded to it.

But of course that cuts both ways doesn’t it Galaxy. We all seek to blame people for our own situation who are not ‘like us’, it’s just that our perception of who is to blame varies. Castigating the middle classes, the majority of whom have risen from the working classes, or them castigating the working class or benefits claimants, or immigrants, serves no purpose.

Galaxy

I find it very scary speaking to the middle classes who are unable to understand how their experience of immigration might be different to others.

Well, I find it very scary living in an area where the very few non white people to be seen are either well liked shop keepers, takeaway staff and NHS yet it's Reform Central and 'immigrants are demonised despite the fact that these people's lives are not affected by them in any way negatively.

Because it demonstrates such a lack of understanding of other people's lives.
Scary in a similar way to the way Wyllow used that word.

Galaxy

I find it very scary speaking to the middle classes who are unable to understand how their experience of immigration might be different to others.

Why scary. What do they do to you?