Andrew Gwynne, Labour MP for Gorton and Denton is standing down because of ill health. Thus provoking a great deal of speculation as to who will stand in his place.

I find it very scary speaking to the middle classes who are unable to understand how their experience of immigration might be different to others.

Whats depressing is, when you actually speak to people on the door canvassing, how little many know what Reforms policies actually are, and don't really actually even know what they are on immigration, except a vague feeling

"They will stop it and that will solve all the other problems" Scary.

I’m in the pondering group, despite feeling strongly that blacking Burnham won’t improve the general negative views about Starmer.
I’m in Gtr Manchester and see Andy Burnham as a good mayor, a real asset to our area. I’d be sorry to see him leave. Yes, I fear Reform. My CLP is so called red wall. Reform is well coordinated and active here. Expressing concern about this decision on Burnham doesn’t mean I support any aspect of Reform MayBee

Yes I was just pondering too

Galaxy

I know you weren't asking me, but I don't think it is a good idea for Labour to make decisions based on how that will impact Reform if you see what I mean.
The problem as I see it is too much reactive behaviour rather than a clear vision

I agree Galaxy.

Labour haven’t said they made this decision based on the possibility of Reform taking the mayoralty - that was my ‘pondering’ really.

Perhaps Labour have shown ‘clear vision’, which is that they want AB to continue the good work he’s doing as Manchester mayor.

Iam64

Annie, yes as I said, I acknowledge the reasons given as valid. I voted and have supported Keir Starmer. I still feel this was the wrong decision. Burnham would have won Gorton, a constituency now likely to be lost by Labour. Burnham would bring many more positives to Westminster than any worries about his leadership ambitions

Keir is excellent internationally imo. He isn’t impressing on the home front. Even long term supporters like me are finding it difficult to defend his apparent inability to work effectively with back benchers and read the room (ie the electorate).

I’m in a so called red wall constituency. We have been one of those areas where our vote predicts the election. We have a good Labour mp. I won’t bore you with the feedback from constituents but I will say reform is very active and organised …..

Where are Reform getting all the money from for this campaigning? I’m sure it isn’t from people that want to make life better for the poor and working classes.

I know you weren't asking me, but I don't think it is a good idea for Labour to make decisions based on how that will impact Reform if you see what I mean.
The problem as I see it is too much reactive behaviour rather than a clear vision

Iam64 if Burnham had been successful what are your views about the danger of the Manchester mayoralty being lost to Reform?

Annie, yes as I said, I acknowledge the reasons given as valid. I voted and have supported Keir Starmer. I still feel this was the wrong decision. Burnham would have won Gorton, a constituency now likely to be lost by Labour. Burnham would bring many more positives to Westminster than any worries about his leadership ambitions

Keir is excellent internationally imo. He isn’t impressing on the home front. Even long term supporters like me are finding it difficult to defend his apparent inability to work effectively with back benchers and read the room (ie the electorate).

I’m in a so called red wall constituency. We have been one of those areas where our vote predicts the election. We have a good Labour mp. I won’t bore you with the feedback from constituents but I will say reform is very active and organised …..

Iam64

DAR, your summary of why Starmer might appeal to a broad electorate is exactly why I voted for him to be leader. it’s why I’ve suppprted him to other Labour members and voters. This latest decisions about Burnham has made me question the leadership teams ability to read the room.

As a lifelong Labour voter I would leave the party if Burnham became leader. I didn’t like Corbyn but I still voted for him and, even now trust him more than I trust Burnham.

The decision was taken by a number not a solitary person , Starmer has given an explanation for his decision and I think it sensible,

Iam64

I’m a LP member and Andy Burnham is my mayor. I voted Cooper and Burnham when Corbyn won. Andy Burnham is a good Mayor, I’d be sorry to lose him. I recognise the expense argument as well as the threat Reform could win a mayoral competition. I was unimpressed by Andy”s manoeuvring some months ago
I feel differently now. I’m very disappointed and cross that he’s been blocked. He could win Gorton, be an excellent M.P for his constituency and an asset in the government. Blocking him imo, makes Starmer look weak and a control freak. He and McSweeny haven’t impressed and this is more inability to read the room

There will be other opportunities for him coming up, am certain he will be back as an MP and a leadership contender.

Casdon

You can ask him MaizieD, as he does respond to comments on his YouTube channel?

Unfortunately I can't because I'm not subscribed to his channel. I can't subscribe because another member of my family who was using my laptop some time ago, registered with Youtube on a separate profile and I can't find out how to unregister him or register myself. So, while I can view anything on Youtube I can never comment 😕

You can ask him MaizieD, as he does respond to comments on his YouTube channel?

I'd like to know where Moorhouse got his chart from. It is certainly bizarre.

My interpretation could be different.

1) I think that the under 50s have, on the whole, only experienced high property prices, high personal debt and financial precarity during their adult lives, whereas the over 50s have had rather more financial security and are better able to see the adverse effects of the current situation.

2) Perhaps the over 50s tendency to read the mainstream media makes them more aware of how economic policies translate into reality.

It may also make them more aware of how the stock market works and the fact that the AI bubble threatens to burst and the current geopolitical uncertainty could seriously adversely affect the global financial world and global trade.

3) The over 50s are better pessimists

DAR, your summary of why Starmer might appeal to a broad electorate is exactly why I voted for him to be leader. it’s why I’ve suppprted him to other Labour members and voters. This latest decisions about Burnham has made me question the leadership teams ability to read the room.

LemonJam

I agree it won't be 'agitators' who cause Labour to lose a future election. It will because the needs of those who voted for them last time are not being met, attacks on immigrants and welfare etc.

Burnham is the least of Starmer's worries.

You are right LemonJam.

Cost of living (affordability) often swings votes. This is a forum fir older (and old) posters. A great many people don't think as the older generations do. This video contains an interesting graph. www.youtube.com/watch?v=trQUinuhMxo

You can see that those over 50 hold very different collective views to younger people on this. I think that opinion may have changed by the time of the next election. Not greatly, but enough. I don't think this naturally conservative group would necessarily be swayed by an attempt to move to a further left position.

MaizieD

How can they resurge, Casdon?. without changing the leadership?

I get that there’s frustration with Keir Starmer's leadership, especially from those on the far-left who feel disconnected from his more centrist approach. But the reality is, the Labour Party can’t only focus on its current members. The key to electoral success, especially in a general election, is expanding the base beyond party insiders.

Starmer's approach might not be ideal for everyone, but he has been careful to position Labour as a credible alternative for voters who may have turned away from the party under Corbyn, or even from other parties like the Conservatives. The goal isn’t just about pleasing the hard-left or the loyalists who are already on board; it's about attracting people who might be disillusioned with the Tories but are looking for a government that feels more stable, responsible, and capable of addressing their everyday concerns.

Think about it. There are plenty of potential voters out there who want change but aren’t necessarily aligned with and may actually oppose the far-left’s ideals. Starmer's moderation could actually be an advantage in winning over people who are tired of extremes, whether that’s on the left or the right. These voters may want social justice and climate action, but they also want a government that can handle the economy sensibly and make pragmatic decisions. It’s about offering a balance, an approach that appeals to both traditional Labour voters and those who might lean more centrist or even swing voters.

MaizieD

How can they resurge, Casdon?. without changing the leadership?

I didn’t say they wouldn’t change the leadership MaizieD? I think there will be a lot of disruption and surprises this year, from all angles, not just in the Labour camp.

I’ve stayed with Starmer despite feeling increasingly disappointed by such poor management of comms and back benchers

I was uneasy by Burnham’s early manoevers. I’ve changed in response to events and I’m now angry at the way Burnham has been blocked. I can’t see how Starmer can remain leader.

How can they resurge, Casdon?. without changing the leadership?

I hope you’re right Casdon.

It’s not over until the fat lady sings. The world will be a very different place in three and a half years time I suspect, and I think Labour will get a bashing in The Welsh and Scottish elections, as will the Tories. After that I can see the dynamics changing, and I anticipate a major resurgence from both before 2029.

I’m a LP member and Andy Burnham is my mayor. I voted Cooper and Burnham when Corbyn won. Andy Burnham is a good Mayor, I’d be sorry to lose him. I recognise the expense argument as well as the threat Reform could win a mayoral competition. I was unimpressed by Andy”s manoeuvring some months ago
I feel differently now. I’m very disappointed and cross that he’s been blocked. He could win Gorton, be an excellent M.P for his constituency and an asset in the government. Blocking him imo, makes Starmer look weak and a control freak. He and McSweeny haven’t impressed and this is more inability to read the room

I agree it won't be 'agitators' who cause Labour to lose a future election. It will because the needs of those who voted for them last time are not being met, attacks on immigrants and welfare etc.

Burnham is the least of Starmer's worries.