Starmer welcoming someone

Anyone who lobbied for his release should have been aware of all his tweets and comments and background and if they didn’t, as seems apparent then they either agreed with his sentiments or were idiots.

So?
What happens now?
Is this charming man, now revealed as a threat to British people, allowed to stay?

Or does Starmer's ego come first?

The fact remains, he made the decision to welcome this man to this country before checking out facts,
His responsibility.

Now Starmer has masses of egg on his face, something that keeps on happening.
I expect at the very least that he and others will say that they had no knowledge of him ever saying anything bad, even tho that makes them look inept.

LemonJam

And Labour for being persuaded by the cross party petition. A full house apart from UK Reform- does anyone know if any Reform UK member signed that petition last December?

Plus the various celebrities who believed what they read in the newspapers and what they heard being debated in the House of Commons.

What was your view at the time Oreo?

Seems only Reform UK had/have a different view.
I’m with them (again).

It was thanks to twitter or X that the story came to light, it was all over twitter long before the mail got hold of it.

Oreo

Now Starmer has masses of egg on his face, something that keeps on happening.
I expect at the very least that he and others will say that they had no knowledge of him ever saying anything bad, even tho that makes them look inept.

I am beginning to think that there is massive ineptness going on with politicians in general. [In their private lives as well].
Or/and worse

Oreo

Anyone who lobbied for his release should have been aware of all his tweets and comments and background and if they didn’t, as seems apparent then they either agreed with his sentiments or were idiots.

Absolutely!

Are our secret services failing us? Or are they being ignored?

I'm not personally aware of any evidence that the individuals described as idiots were aware of the 2012 tweets at the time they formed their views regarding the Egyptian imprisonment. I'm prepared to give all the benefit of the doubt, i.e. innocent until proven guilty, until if and when such evidence becomes available.

FGT@- Farage as Reform UK's leader, is on record as saying he accepts/ supports race hate on line, on the grounds of free speech. He doesn't think those who post race hate should be put in prison.

FGT2 sorry- typo- I apologise.

Alaa is a celebrated British-Egyptian writer and co-recipient of this year’s PEN Pinter prize, but he has spent the past decade imprisoned in Egypt. Alaa has been imprisoned for his writings on human rights and technology and in support of democracy. He is an Amnesty International prisoner of conscience
John McDonnell (yes that John McDonnell 🤔)
Hansard November 2024

The same Alaa Abd el-Fattah who tweeted that there was no genocide against Jews because many are left?
Who said I’m a violent person who advocated the killing of all Zionists including civilians, so f* off.’
‘Police are not human, they don’t have rights, we should just kill them all.’
And wrote: ‘Go burn the city or Downing Street or hunt police you fools^.

Such a humanitarian and advocate for democracy.
If you're not Jewish or a member of the police force of course.

I begin to despair that anything can go right for our country as we are lions led by donkeys.

Oreo

I begin to despair that anything can go right for our country as we are lions led by donkeys.

That is how I feel.

I cant blame people leaving this Country myself. Whoever they are.

The Conservatives are calling for his deportation, knowing you cannot directly deprive someone of citizenship.

It must be established it doesn't leave Fattah stateless and is conducive to the public good.

To deport him would involve a process of investigation, and evidence gathering to establish grounds for the public good. Hence my earlier suggestion for investigation- whether by police or security services. The next stage would be to seek a deprivation order.

Then he must be granted a right to appeal in either a First level tribunal or Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC) in national security cases- with appeals pausing removal until resolved.

No doubt all this will be debated in coming days...it won't be quick.

Oreo

I begin to despair that anything can go right for our country as we are lions led by donkeys.

I agree.

I didn’t vote Labour, (our constituency candidate was beyond the pale for me)

It just seems to be a continuous cycle of bloopers

I had hoped for better, but hey ho we are where we are and just have to hope that we (UK) can rise once again like a proverbial phoenix 🐦‍🔥

The Conservatives are calling for his deportation, knowing you cannot directly deprive someone of citizenship.

Yes, they can.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06820/

It happens more frequently than you would think.

I'm not saying it should happen in this case, as I said earlier, he might be a reformed character or might be useful to our secret services for some reason. Who knows?

Thanks for the link Allira, when I used the word directly- I meant a government could not directly deprivet without following due process.

Yes a Home Secretary can in certain proscribed circumstances, "directly' deport as set out in your link for certain circumstances and it also sets out the process. Mr Fattah would still have grounds for appeal, as set out in your link:

"People can also be stripped of their citizenship by the Home Secretary but do" have a right of appeal, although intelligence evidence may be withheld. The Home Secretary is usually required to give the person written notice. Notice can be withheld in certain circumstances, such as where it is considered reasonably necessary in the interests of national security. There is a right of appeal against citizenship deprivation. Appeals take place at the First-tier Tribunal or (in national security/terrorism cases) the Special Immigration Appeals Commission, SIAC. In SIAC appeals, sensitive evidence may be withheld from the appellant and their lawyer, and a ‘special advocate’ appointed to represent their interests instead". The Supreme Court has given multiple judgments on how judges are required to handle appeals."

The first few paragraphs of your link are clear- ie that such Deprivation usually happens for national security reasons or in cases of fraud. Depriving someone of their British citizenship for the public good is generally used in the context of national security or counter-terrorism. The aim is to prevent a person who poses a threat to the United Kingdom from returning to the country, which they would otherwise have a right to do as a British citizen. There are also rare cases involving serious or organised criminals etc.

I stand by suggestion that investigation by police or security services would be required, covertly if there are national security concerns, to have evidence and ducks in a row for right to right to appeal, SIAC route if appropriate.

I would ask the people on twitter to do it, they seem to have a better grasp than the intelligence services, for example.

While I agree that two wrongs do not make a right I do not believe that the last government ( in all of it’s incarnations) were held to account in the way that the Labour Party has been.

But it was Maybee70 ! Which is why Labour won the last GE.

Oreo

But it was Maybee70 ! Which is why Labour won the last GE.

Yes 👍🏻

Galaxy

I would ask the people on twitter to do it, they seem to have a better grasp than the intelligence services, for example.

Like they did with Nicola Bulley, for example.

They have just held the government to account. We should be grateful. They will also be there when it is a different government.

Oreo

But it was Maybee70 ! Which is why Labour won the last GE.

No. The Conservatives weren’t being held to account. Their constant infighting and attempt to become the Reform party did that. Where was eg media condemnation of Johnson’s relationship with Lebdedev?

I never have an issue with the truth being exposed Galaxy, but I do think X is a most unreliable witness - there are a thousand lies for every truth.