BMJ defends FGM

Is there evidence that doctors are not reporting this? Is there any evidence that children are being taken to the doctors with evidence that they have been subjected to FMG and doctors are colluding with the parents? I don't think there is. Sadly, most girls who are subjected to this are taken out of the country and brought back when they have healed. So how on earth is anyone expected to know it has taken place? Yes, parents can be prosecuted if they take children to another country to have this done but unless every child is examined at customs, how on earth is anyone supposed to know that this has happened? This is why discussion is a better tool than legislation. We want to prevent it happening rather than try to prosecute parents after the event, because prosecution is a double crisis for the child involved and also for any other children in the family.

Do you say that about other forms of child abuse? Obviously they should be prosecuted.

In terms of prevention, we need to be very clear about values, this is not a value to be tolerated. We don't start excusing it in terms of 'culture' , that is just a form of progressive racism.

Don;t put words in my mouth, Galaxy
"We want to prevent it happening rather than try to prosecute parents after the event, because prosecution is a double crisis for the child involved and also for any other children in the family."

I am not saying we shouldn't prosecute something which is illegal. I'm saying it is better to try to prevent the illegal act in the first place.

Well yes but we would like that ideal in all forms of child abuse, but we have never been able to achieve that throughout history. The low rate if prosecution does not help the situation, similar to the low rate of conviction for rape, it legitimises those behaviours in a way.

I am not saying we shouldn't prosecute something which is illegal. I'm saying it is better to try to prevent the illegal act in the first place.

But the trying to prevent is not stopping it.

All the jaw ache in the world is not stopping it.

How much more "discussion", money put towards it, protest groups, letters written, etc etc

Galaxy

Well yes but we would like that ideal in all forms of child abuse, but we have never been able to achieve that throughout history. The low rate if prosecution does not help the situation, similar to the low rate of conviction for rape, it legitimises those behaviours in a way.

Hear hear

In terms of prevention, we need to be very clear about values, this is not a value to be tolerated. We don't start excusing it in terms of 'culture'

Agree with this as well.

foxie48

Don;t put words in my mouth, Galaxy
"We want to prevent it happening rather than try to prosecute parents after the event, because prosecution is a double crisis for the child involved and also for any other children in the family."

I am not saying we shouldn't prosecute something which is illegal. I'm saying it is better to try to prevent the illegal act in the first place.

Thanks foxie48 for stating the aim of those working in this fraught and challenging area of safeguarding. I’m not suggesting FGM isn’t abuse and I’m sure you aren’t either. The reality is a loving caring mother, herself a victim of FGM will be under untold pressure to continue this abuse pattern.

There’s no evidence I’m aware of thst medical or social work professionals collude or cover up. I know that women who were subjected and give birth often need extensive reconstructive surgery.

Then she is both abuser and abused, which I suppose isn't completely unique in abuse cases.
I think it wasn't necessarily cover up by professionals but rather inaction/ lack of knowledge, they didn't bring about the mandatory reporting, legally enforced, for no reason.

How are doctors supposed to find more cases to bring to the attention of the police?It requires an intimate examination or personal disclosure and a willingness of the girl to give evidence. Realistically, how many girls/young women do you think would be willing to turn their parents in to the police? Are you suggesting girls returning from trips abroad should be examined in customs? The reason why there are few prosecutions is surely because families stay silent? Perhaps you could give your thoughts on how to get more prosecutions if you think this is an effective way of reducing this and most importantly, how will you measure success?

The mandatory reporting was a good start, there are often signs that this is about to happen, whether that is discussion of travel abroad, change in behaviour, I would think it is more teaching staff rather than medical staff who will be impacted by the mandatory reporting, they tend to know the families well, and are more likely to witness signs of distress or hear disclosures.

I recall in the early nineties, detailed and at times heated discussion about FGM on the safeguarding team, with police and health . Our immediate area at that time had few asylum seekers or immigrants from communities who practiced FGM. The multi disciplinary work shifted my initial response of seek and prosecute, to realising work with relevant communities was an essential building block.
Working

Apologies, the iPad gremlin took over and typed working

But the communities, or certain women who have experienced fgm are raising concerns about the article in the bmj. They have concerns as they are saying the language used comes from their experience.

Mandatory reporting has been in place since 2003. Is it working?

Galaxy, can you expand that, or point me in the direction of something to read. Ta

I thought it was 2015 for social workers teachers etc wasn't it.

Nimco ali has done an article on it, in the telegraph.

I would also say janice Turner ( obviously speaking from a feminist petspective rather than a survivir persoective) article in the Times is
very good.

Sorry phone has gremlins too.

Apologies the reporting did come in 2015, the 2003 was making it a criminal act. But we're still looking at 10 years of mandatory reporting, is it working?

I think it was a start but I didnt introduce it. As I think is clear if it was up to me I would be much clearer from a values perspective.
I think some of that article was drifting towards that kind of progressive racism which sometimes rears it head.

The title of the thread says the BMJ defends fmg, it does nothing of the sort. The OP reports that the article says banning FMG is cultural suppression, the article doesn't say that. No one has suggested that FMG should be decriminalised neither does the article. I think this thread is the perfect example of how the media incorrectly reports things in a way that distorts the truth and is purposely trying to create division in society.
Its an essay which compiles a range of different opinions about how professionals might improve the effectiveness of their communication with members of communities that might take their children abroad for illegal practices. Tbh I think every contributor to this thread would agree that what happens now is not entirely successful and would want to stop these practices so there's really no disagreement.

I think the article is a form of progressive racism, so I am sure there is quite a bit of disagreement to be honest, and there is understandable distrust from those feminists who have watched this kind of manipulation of language before.
We are able to think without bring manipulated by the media, in fact I would say writers such as Janice Turner were one of the few voices who have demonstrated they were able to demonstrate critical thinking while most other people were nodding along with mantras.