Tommy Robinson’s ‘put Christ back into Christmas’ message"

One thing I picked up from somewhere (or perhaps worked out for myself) is that we are all the children of God, so whatever Jesus' earthly conception was, he was the ultimate representation of all humanity.

In the Methodist Church the immaculate conception is central alongside the risen Christ, which is why the cross is always empty.

Just wondering is the Immaculate Conception taught differently by non Catholic Christian churches.

Smileless2012

I should have said that nothing has changed in terms of the Christian faith WW.

You're right of course that the institution of the church has seen many changes and no doubt there will be others but Christianity is based on the belief of Jesus as the Son of God, made man through the immaculate conception/virgin birth and His resurrection.

That has never changed.

Mary was the Immaculate Conception, Jesus was the Miraculous Conception. Well that's what the nuns taught me (well beat into me. Not a lot of Christian charity.)

Smileless2012

Christians share the same belief Wyllow, that's what makes us Christians.

We don't all believe the same thing. I believe in transubstantiation but I'm aware not all Christians do.

Smileless2012

I also believe there is much to be learnt from other faiths Wyllow not because I call myself a Christian I just happen to be one.

The core beliefs of Christianity are the virgin birth and the resurrection. These are not interpretations for as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 verse 14 "If Christ has not been raised our preaching is useless and so is your faith".

My posts are not about trying to impose my view of being the only faith that has anything to offer, I am merely stating that unless you believe in the virgin birth and resurrection of Jesus, you are not a Christian because these are the keys.

I agree that Jesus doesn't need to be literally/physical "the son of God" (I never us a small 'g' because for me that is disrespectful) but following his teachings without believing in the circumstances of his conception and resurrection, does not a Christian make.

St Paul also instructed women to be silent in church. Personally I'm a Christian and I'm not silent in church. Do we just pick and choose when to accept what he says?

Whitewavemark2

Hmm

I invite you to go back over time in the Christian church, then tell me that nothing has changed.

Lots has changed since I was a child. The latin mass, Fridays being a fast day, married priests, it felt very strange to me to take communion with the wife and children of a new priest who had left the CofE due to ordination of women.

nanna8

To be a Christian you have to accept that Jesus is our God and King who rose from the dead that we might be saved. Christmas is the time to celebrate His birth.

I was taught He suffered and died on the cross to save us.

I think the Mormons are very wealthy partly because it imposes a 10% tithe on it's members. I don't attend any church services but I wonder what the expected offering on a Sunday is in our local Anglican church. My neighbour is the church warden, it has a service every other Sunday with about 20 in the congregation, average age is in the 70's but I doubt Tommy and his mob would be welcomed with much enthusiasm.

Who on earth dreamt up the name - The Confessing Anglican Church? Based in America.
I am looking forward to some renewal in the real Anglican Church here under the new Archbishop of Canterbury….

Oh, scrub the last sentence, she's not a Mormon.

But the Mormons, foxie emanate from a much larger population than does the C of E.

OTOH, I have one living up the road from me and she's not wealthy at all...

Indeed, the Anglican church is very wealthy. Having taken over (or retained, whichever way you want to look at it) the vast landholdings of the English religious institutions when Henry VIII proclaimed himself head of the Church in England, there was still a considerable amount left after Henry had sold a lot off or given it to his favourites. But that is administered by the Church Commissioners. Individual priests and Bishops within the Anglican Church don't have their own companies.

I expect that the 'Confessing Anglican Church' has a registered company too, for central fund, but individual ministers?

Ronib there's really nothing to understand. Bishops are appointed in lots of different religious groups, it's not just the Church of England and the Catholic church. With regard to wealth, the Church of the Latter Day Saints is reckoned to be the wealthiest with circa 290 billions of dollars, makes the £11billion of the CofE look somewhat impoverished!

Whenever I read any news, however minor, about Latterday Saints (Mormons), it seems that the people involved are all bishops. There are more chiefs in the minority religions/denominations than there are Indians. Perhaps that follows from so many of them originating in the United States.

(It takes a conscious effort not to call that country "America" but while they are under their current administration/regime I keep reminding myself and others that the States are NOT the whole of the continent.)

I don’t understand how anyone can become a bishop without first having been ordained.
The idea of running a company as a business which is actually a church is a bit difficult to grasp but of course, cynically the two main Christian faiths are very wealthy with vast property portfolios.

Forgiveness used to be a core Christian belief.

Indeed, ronib, but confession comes first....

The Confessing Anglican Church appears to be a US organisation. It has a website and its postal address is in the US.

'Bishop' Dewar also has a registered company in his name. I wonder what he needs that for

Thanks for the AI information, foxie. It confirms what I suspected.

I did a google search and the AI summary was a bit cagey about his 'bishopric'. but then, google is a US company and needs to stay in Trump's good books.

I'm identifying as Chancellor of the Exchequer for the identifiable future

He identifies as an Evangelical Bishop.

I'm identifying as the new Archbishop of Canterbury.
Just until Saturday.

foxie48

If Tommy Robinson is instrumental in a "spiritual awakening and revival" it will be a bloomin' miracle!

The end of the world would be nigh!

Thank you, foxie, and Allira, and that has really cleared matters up. Some self appointed religious leader, why anyone can call themselves that and it's usually damaging for followers.

TR should stick to politics, frankly, I don't see him gaining any cred from well respected existing churches, and I doubt we will hear a lot more of it.

If Tommy Robinson is instrumental in a "spiritual awakening and revival" it will be a bloomin' miracle!

I had not a clue about Bishop Dewar and his particular evangelical mission.
Of course, the CofE and bishops in particular would be going against its own religious values and teachings if it did hold TR in everlasting damnation. Forgiveness used to be a core Christian belief.
The CofE’s bishopric has not covered itself in glory and even a young vicar expressed his disdain to me. So all is not as it should be I can guess? I believe that the C of E is long overdue for a spiritual awakening and revival. It’s truly ironic if Tommy Robinson is part of this movement…..

Wyllow3

In a way its a strength that the C of E has "outlier" bishops, for example those who have paved the way for women or gay people to play a greater part in church life against initial huge reactions against same.

But it also means we'll get outliers like Bisop Dewar. But I'd also like to see the article/video, Ronib

- I'm not doubting your word, more that I'd like the read the details, to reach understanding of which sort of services are these "grassroots" having, and so on. (I suspect at least some are the very "evangelical" ones, but don't know without more information.

He is nothing to do with the C of E and I'd be surprised if, reading about him, he would have had anything to do with paving the way for women or gay people to play a greater part in church life against initial huge reactions against same even if he was.
He has been accused of mysoginism in the past.

😊