Breaking Peace in the Middle East? Continued thread.

Of course probably the most obvious solution for Jews living in Palestine would be to tell their Government what's what and they were choosing not to back all their endless wars and whatever excuse they've come out with for them this time.

Thankfully, there are a noticeable number it seems who are thoroughly fed-up with all the wars their Government has, the raids the settlers do, etc and live more normally themselves. With the bravest refusing to get conscripted into the IDF.

Good grief.
I think common sense has left this thread.

Do you not agree with people refusing to back a Government fighting a war of this nature? #puzzled smilie. (ie a war of attrition against the native people of Palestine). From where most of us are standing the Palestinians are defending themselves - they werent the agressor in the first place way back when...

Add the unofficial aspect - the settlers and their violence. I've never yet seen Palestinians lead an attack on settlers - just defending themselves against the latest settler attack on their property (if that - as the Palestinians just seem to land up being on the receiving end of all those attacks).

So, do some posters think that Palestinians are not entitled to a homeland, but that Jews are?

Maremia

So, do some posters think that Palestinians are not entitled to a homeland, but that Jews are?

Who thinks that?

Have the Palestinians ever been asked how they would like to sort it out?
Perhaps begin by asking those who live in the West Bank.
How would they like the internationally condemned Settlers to be dealt with?
Some of us could probably make a guess.

I won't know that Allira, until posters respond,

But it is a valid question.

One can flip this "A religion is entitled to a homeland" by saying "Right you are then - we'll have one for Buddhists, one for Sikhs and go all the way down to the one with the smallest number of adherents....guess that one would be Subud then for instance and maybe the number of them on the planet would equal a small island then to accommodate them".

That's how the Partition of India was devised.

Just been onto Chat GPT again - this time asking how big a country Subud would need for instance (ie one of the ones with a very small number of adherents). Back came there's estimated to be 10,000-20,000 of them in the world - so I guess the Isle of Man would about cover that if it were given to them and it was proclaimed to be theirs.

Maremia

I won't know that Allira, until posters respond,

Sorry, didn't read your post properly.
I read it as a statement.
I need coffee.

Morning coffee and a wee biscuit. Enjoy.

The whole homeland difficulty is that whereas Jewish people from around the world can happily emigrate to Israel which they see as their land, Palestinian refugees, of which there are many, living in Jordan and Egypt, have no right to return.
Until this injustice is addressed I don’t see how a two state solution can even be floated.
And obviously as others have said on more than one occasion the whole problem with illegal Jewish settlers living on Palestinian land aided and abetted by the government, also needs to be addressed.
For many decades Israel has been the homeland of the Jewish people but surely not at the expense of the Palestinians who also call it home. Thousands of years ago God may have given this country to the Jewish people but I really don’t think we can call upon him/her to give testimony or provide documented evidence.

Nor is God a Middle East estate agent.

Quite! Babs. God is a concept - a concept that says "God is Love". There ain't much loving going on when someone steals another person's country.

A video has just gone up on YouTube from the Al Jazeera English channel - called "This ancient Chinese game explains Israel's strategy in the West Bank".

It makes it crystal clear exactly what strategy is being pulled on the Palestinians. Another way of putting it would be "softly softly catchee monkey". It's what is happening - it is what has always been happening since the 1940s.

It makes a lot of very logical sense and one can see clearly exactly what they're doing, exactly why the idea of "two separate territories" hasn't got a hope in heck of working. It's very very crystal clear exactly what they're up to. It also forms the basis of why the second they've grabbed all of Palestine (maybe even before then) they'll then go on to grab a lot more of "other peoples countries". It's so so blindingly obvious what they're up to, what they've always been up to and they have no plans whatsoever on stopping unless/until they've got the "Greater Israel" they're after.

Think of it logically and the idea falls at the very first hurdle that a 2,000 year old book would give followers of one religion and one religion only a right to landgrab someone else's country. Think of it logically - and just why do they not want people taking a DNA test? - because it would prove what race or races they really are and that "religion is not a race" and the two are not the same thing at all.

Five minutes of logic and their case for landgrabbing fails miserably.

I maybe find it easier than many to understand the strategy they are following - because I've had it pulled on me within the confines of my own life. It is a strategy that the agressor is prepared to play for years in order to get what they want (but know they're not entitled to have) and they grab for a little bit, try to break your will and wear you down, then they grab for a little bit more and try to do some more "break your will and wear you down". It is a very deliberate tactic - they plan it - it is not a coincidence. They repeat and repeat - and all the time they lie to justify themselves and their actions and they don't care one tiny bit what happens to the people whose property they wish to grab for (be it a job or a home or whatever else it is they are after grabbing). They literally just want the "opposition" to just conveniently vanish or die and everyone to stand back and believe what they are being told by the "grabber". They are out to break the person or country that has what they want for themselves. They would like their would-be victim/s to say "Oh you are so right - of course you are and I own nothing and you own it all. Here - have it!" and they'd smile and graciously acknowledge it (as if it was theirs by rights) and for the victim to literally vanish somehow.

It very much indeed is a strategy.

When I encountered it on a personal level I had to have someone who was witnessing what was going on explaining to me what they were up to. I didn't believe them to start with. Then I thought about, realised they were spot-on in their judgement and I had to think "What should they do? What would a nicer person (eg me) do?" and then absolutely turn it upside down on its head - and then it's crystal clear exactly what is happening and what they will do next.

Allira

Good grief.
I think common sense has left this thread.

Which is why I’m leaving it….
There’s too much nonsense about race and DNA.

Think that what Putin is attempting in Europe, to claim back what he thinks is 'owed' to the USSR.

Yes. Very similar. Also Putin has started bombing children. A nursery was hit in Ukraine. Luckily all the children were saved by very brave men who went in to rescue
them. Just little toddlers.

What exactly is the land area in Greater Israel?

Maremia

What exactly is the land area in Greater Israel?

There are a few variations on this.

Basically Palestine and Lebanon and Syria and Jordan and parts of Egypt and parts of Iraq.

They can't ever hope to achieve that?

Maremia

They can't ever hope to achieve that?

Well they're not exactly thinking realistically in the first place - so whether they will manage to grab so much of other peoples land is one thing - but imo that won't prevent them trying.

To me - it feels like they are doing a steady "nibble a bit of land here, nibble another bit of land there" method of proceeding. They're letting their settlers do the job for them by and large re the West Bank and I'd say they've pretty much stolen that by now. I know, on a personal level, all about how neighbours can wage a war of attrition trying to "grab this bit, grab that bit".

It's astonishing just how entitled some people can be - and, in their case, a group of people. There are some "human beings" amongst them (ie who refuse to take part in all that and help the rightful land-owners/refuse to enlist in their army) - but the "others" seem to predominate...and bring a whole new meaning to saying "some people are so entitled".

Facebook post this morning, from the account of Linda Mamour,

'Nine year old Palestinian boy stood at a distance, arms folded. An Israeli soldier knelt and shot him dead.'

'Arms folded', and so he was not throwing stones or anything else.
'At a distance', so no immediate threat.
The soldier knelt, so he was not ambushed or surprised or startled or menaced in any way, by a boy standing at a distance.

Deliberate killing of an unarmed child is a war crime, murder, disgraceful.