Norman Tebbit has died.

I wonder how old Buttonjugs is, Galaxy, that she thinks it should be used as an insult?

I can’t help hope that I outlive Tony Blair and dish out some merde…

As has been said it not the mention of politics, it is the inability to distinguish between politics and the person, it is saying things like I can't begin to care as he was old and tory.
That phrase also describes my father in law. He in his life has demonstrated more kindness than most i know despite being 'old and tory'.
I can't describe how divisive this kind of thing is.

I agree Bluecat. He may have been a wonderful husband, family man, friend in his personal life. In his political career he served in a government that did things I can never forgive, for very personal reasons.

My point was, that if this is an ‘obituary thread’ where only positive posts are welcome, I think this is a first for gransnet. It’s not like some other threads that provide mutual support and a warm, relaxing space, where no one would dream of posting negative comments. As far as I know, no one on here was personally connected to NT and I think it is only natural at these times to reflect on the damage that government did.

Bluecat Your opinion of Conservative policy and what it did is purely an opinion. Other people put entirely different interpretations on those venets seeing them as a necessary evil in pulling the UK from a downward path. That is not my opinion.

It means that many honest good and true people can have political views and endorse political policies that ae anathema to other equally good and true people who belong to another party.

You should be capable of being able to see through the political beliefs of someone to see, who the person was behind the politics and was in private life a devoted family man who when faced with adversity in his family took up all the burdens this laid on him without finching and with love and devotion.

Quote MayBee70 Fri 11-Jul-25 07:26:54
Anniebach
Saying he gave up his seat in the conservative government to
have more time caring his wife who was a victim of a bombing
is truth, a fact , no whitewashing
No one is disputing that. But he played a huge part in a government that caused a lot of suffering to many people and later on supported UKIP, was anti EU and against gay marriage. So imo his politics didn’t soften in later life but hardened.

Doesn’t change the fact that he stood down from a seat in parliament to have more time with his seriously injured wife,
Three times married Corbyn was a better man being far left, no matter he invited IRA supporters to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing which left Mrs Tebbit paralysed
from neck down and killed five, so there must have been much
shock and grief , no matter they were conservatives

Anniebach

Saying he gave up his seat in the conservative government to
have more time caring his wife who was a victim of a bombing
is truth, a fact , no whitewashing

No one is disputing that. But he played a huge part in a government that caused a lot of suffering to many people and later on supported UKIP, was anti EU and against gay marriage. So imo his politics didn’t soften in later life but hardened.

Saying he gave up his seat in the conservative government to
have more time caring his wife who was a victim of a bombing
is truth, a fact , no whitewashing

Bluecat

I stand by what I said. I am sorry for his wife's suffering and I don't wish anyone dead, though he was 94 so it can't have come as a great shock to his family.

But as for "reading the room" as someone said in response to my previous post... Well, there are some of us in the room who were appalled by the damage done to this country by Thatcher's government, damage which still affects society today. And however much people may try to whitewash his memory, Mr Tebbutt played his part in that government and promoted its values.

Have I missed the "whittewashed" his memory bit ....where exactly?

I stand by what I said. I am sorry for his wife's suffering and I don't wish anyone dead, though he was 94 so it can't have come as a great shock to his family.

But as for "reading the room" as someone said in response to my previous post... Well, there are some of us in the room who were appalled by the damage done to this country by Thatcher's government, damage which still affects society today. And however much people may try to whitewash his memory, Mr Tebbutt played his part in that government and promoted its values.

Disliking the politics doesn't justify diminishing other aspects and being pretty obnoxious

I agree.

Galaxy

I actually disagree fundamentally with many things Tebbit stood for but I am able to understand that what happened to him and his wife was dreadful, and that as far as we can see he demonstrated caring and devotion. Dividing people into the goodies and baddies is just such a pointless exercise.

Exactly!

nightowl

I can’t remember such courtesy being afforded to any other politician who has died. Goodness, when Margaret Thatcher died the threads were extremely heated! Personal comments, describing her as saint or devil, were par for the course and I believe gransnet HQ had to step in a few times. I’m very sorry for Norman Tebbit’s family and friends, as I am when anyone dies. But I don’t recognise this gransnet where we all queue up to say only what a wonderful person the deceased was.

Its not about "only saying what a wonderful person the deceased was"!

It's about not recognising that eg. having ones wife paralysed from the neck down as a consequence of ones job is a lot more than "just paying for care, that's it" as suggested by one poster. The point is one can acknowledge that was a dreadful experience and impact and he did the right things for his wife (for example) whilst strongly disagreeing with his politics. Disliking the politics doesnt justify diminishing other aspects and being pretty obnoxious

Galaxy

I actually disagree fundamentally with many things Tebbit stood for but I am able to understand that what happened to him and his wife was dreadful, and that as far as we can see he demonstrated caring and devotion. Dividing people into the goodies and baddies is just such a pointless exercise.

As I said upthread, he was a mixture of good and bad - just like the rest of us!

Where are all the very many posts saying how wonderful he was?

I can’t remember such courtesy being afforded to any other politician who has died. Goodness, when Margaret Thatcher died the threads were extremely heated! Personal comments, describing her as saint or devil, were par for the course and I believe gransnet HQ had to step in a few times. I’m very sorry for Norman Tebbit’s family and friends, as I am when anyone dies. But I don’t recognise this gransnet where we all queue up to say only what a wonderful person the deceased was.

People can talk about anything they like and people can respond in any way they see fit that doesn't break guidelines. I think there is quite a difference between saying I didn't agree with his politics (as I have just done) to some of the things that have been said on here.

So on a "news & politics" thread about the fact that a politician has died, no one is supposed to talk about his politics.

Gosh what a to do…

I put this on the News thread because it came up as news on my BBC app and probably would only put personal bereavement on the Bereavement Forum.

As I pointed out earlier I didn’t agree with Tebbitts “cricket” test but my own father hopped on his motorbike in the early sixties when he was let go from the local factory in the late 50s.

He travelled 30 miles through two winters 4 days on/4 off to do a labouring job building a reservoir in the Moelwyn mountains rather than claim dole - that was a seminal lesson for me and probably Tebbit too.

Galaxy

Of course it is fine to criticise. That's not against any guidelines. I am not stopping them calling tebbit anything they like. In return I can respond to what I think about people who say they can't begin to care because he is old and a tory.

Usually done by the caring left.🤔

Galaxy 👏👏👏

Galaxy 👏👏👏

Galaxy 👍🏻

I actually disagree fundamentally with many things Tebbit stood for but I am able to understand that what happened to him and his wife was dreadful, and that as far as we can see he demonstrated caring and devotion. Dividing people into the goodies and baddies is just such a pointless exercise.

Of course it is fine to criticise. That's not against any guidelines. I am not stopping them calling tebbit anything they like. In return I can respond to what I think about people who say they can't begin to care because he is old and a tory.

Anniebach

Is a bereavement thread not for those who are grieving?

As Luckygirl points out. This is a News and Politics forum. It's a News thread, not a bereavement thread.