The U.K. has moved on from Brexit.

I agree, M0nica there's far less public pissing in France these days.

Circumnavigating the rules, however, is a French past time amongst a number of the French I know, or maybe I just attract crooks?
When I was teaching at a school in France, I lived in a convent, (it was quite fun actually!). I shared a room with Michèle. When it came to submitting my government claim for lodgings, the good sisters entered the price of a single room which was obviously quite a bit more than the shared room fee. They then pocketed the higher amount for themselves with a shrug!

The bureacracy of everyday life in France is weighty, detailed and traditionally very paper heavy, though much of it is now online. I have no sense of people ignoring or circumventing the rules. We are currently involved in getting support for DH who now has complex health and disability issues. The services are fast, reactive, and very carefully targeted at our needs. Frankly I can cope with a bit of bureacracy to receive the level of care that the state provides for us.
It is managed by the Maison de Solidarité. Says it all really.

Whe we first went to France men, thought nothing of urinating in public, with their backs to other people. You would see men standing in front of hedges, behind hedges, on the side of the road.

Our local Builder's Merchant had a sign painted all along the wall that the white van men parked their vans against 'Ne pisser pas ici'. You do not need to speak French to know what the sign is banning.

Nowadays, public urination is almost unknown, and almost all those still behaving like this are elderly.

Well our home was in rural lower Normandy, and the Normans are the nearest the French have to Yorkshire people, but, as I said,became noticeably more law abiding over the 30 plus years we spent time there.

M0nica

David49

My impression of the French system is that they ignore the rules if it doesn’t suit them and make up their own.
Rules yes but French rules

Include all the East European countries along with Italy and Greece

Our experience would suggest the opposite, particularly in the rules around everyday living.

Everyday living is distinctly different to the UK especially outside the cities.

But Farage and the Tory Right have not moved on from Brexit.

With everyday living are you talking more about cultures laws there?
It's different when you work there, and talk to people in the system or who run businesses there.

David49

My impression of the French system is that they ignore the rules if it doesn’t suit them and make up their own.
Rules yes but French rules

Include all the East European countries along with Italy and Greece

Our experience would suggest the opposite, particularly in the rules around everyday living.

It's called pragmatism David49. It works nicely for them.

My impression of the French system is that they ignore the rules if it doesn’t suit them and make up their own.
Rules yes but French rules

Include all the East European countries along with Italy and Greece

My experience of French rules is totally different from MOnica's, and as for property selling, the estate agents and notaires we know are in total cahoots to avoid paying any taxes to the government. Recently we should have paid 25+% capital gains tax on our properties - well we could hardly have said that all 4 of them were our main residence, could we - and we exited without paying a cent. All done at the notarie's office with a handshake and slap up lunch at the château by the lake after. DH kept telling me to ask for clarification everytime I was over in France, but all I got was the gallic shrug and "don't you worry". 😉
Don't get me started on the way they get round Health and Safety rules either. Common sense is their approach.

It wasn't that Britain stuck to the rules when others didn't, it was that Britain always felt a need to gold plate the rules. Whatever the rule was, we always added bells and whistles that were completely unnecessary.

I think also people over estimate the extent that other countries ignored the rules. The German and other northern European countries were always sticklers for obeying the rules and other countries have caught up. Spain is now as bureatcratic as any EU official could want. The Italians and Greeks will always cause problems, but they are only 2 countries in 27

We had a holiday home in France for over 30 years, we visited it frequently and we saw how the French went from a very laissez-faire attitude to everything to a bureaucratic attitude.

We noticed this especially when we sold our house. The purchase was agreed on a hand shake and a few formalities - and we even made changes to the boundaries of the proeprty after the event.

The sale of the property was a rigourous legal procedure, with specialist surveys, everything having to be agreed, noted down by the notaire and two sessions, one on exchange, the other on completion, when we all met up and went through the contract of sale line by line and clause by clause. Far more rigourously, and bureaucratically than the British procedure. No deals 'under the table' that was the norm when we bught our house.

Strange that after Brexit some of us were accused of not getting behind it for the good of the country. And yet now that Starmer is working hard to get trade deals and boost the economy so many people don’t want him to succeed.

Oreo

Starmer is sealing his fate and won’t be PM after the next election.I am beyond angry with him for all the stupid political mistakes since last year at the very point that Labour got back into power after such a long time.I had high hopes last June which didn’t last long.

👍👍👍👍👍

That was what the ECJ was for.

If any business felt that other businesses or governments were not adhering to the rules it could and did take its grievances to the ECJ, which was empowered to rule and enforce its ruling.

Oreo

MayBee70

So wasn’t that our governments fault and not the EU?

Yes and No.
The rules were supposed to be adhered to by every country but seldom were.Apart from the UK who rigorously stuck to them rather stupidly.

Each region was allowed to administer the rules according to local needs, Greece has totally different priorities to Scotland, in some places it was the local mafia that supervised things.
England added a lot of extra provisions that proved unworkable in the end they gave up

MayBee70

So wasn’t that our governments fault and not the EU?

Yes and No.
The rules were supposed to be adhered to by every country but seldom were.Apart from the UK who rigorously stuck to them rather stupidly.

The Brexit pantomime was kick started by David Cameron. Where's he been while the brickbats have been flying?

42% of our goods export is to the EU.

2% is to India

So wasn’t that our governments fault and not the EU?

MayBee70

Homestead62

The saddest thing I find is when we wanted to do certain things in our country, we weren't allowed, but then it seemed other countries in the EU were allowed to do what they wanted, but it always seemed to be different rules and regs for the UK somehow. I cannot help but think if the EU had been prepared to discuss more and compromise, we would never have been in this mess in the first place. It's sad that it has taken the war in Ukraine for many to wake up and begin to work together.

Can you give me specific examples please.

The Common Agriculture Policy was widely exploited by the southern states, England in on the other hand, took the rules and gold plated them to the extent that it was impossible to administer. Other UK regions at least had workable systems.

It's quite a while ago but immigration and the fishing industry spring to mind. I honestly cannot remember the details but did David Cameron not at one point approach the EU to discuss immigration and was basically told to accept the status quo or do one? Can anyone remember that. There was also an article somewhere about UK fisherman having to sit outside discussions about the industry while other countries fisherman were admitted to the meetings? I'm sorry I cannot find links to this but perhaps others can remember. If I'm mistaken on any of this, please do say.

Homestead62

The saddest thing I find is when we wanted to do certain things in our country, we weren't allowed, but then it seemed other countries in the EU were allowed to do what they wanted, but it always seemed to be different rules and regs for the UK somehow. I cannot help but think if the EU had been prepared to discuss more and compromise, we would never have been in this mess in the first place. It's sad that it has taken the war in Ukraine for many to wake up and begin to work together.

Can you give me specific examples please.

The saddest thing I find is when we wanted to do certain things in our country, we weren't allowed, but then it seemed other countries in the EU were allowed to do what they wanted, but it always seemed to be different rules and regs for the UK

As I understand it, it wasn't different rules and regs for the UK, especially as, with a seat at the 'top table', so to speak, the UK was complicit in making most of them. The UK just wasn't so adept as some states at working round them...

Homestead62

The saddest thing I find is when we wanted to do certain things in our country, we weren't allowed, but then it seemed other countries in the EU were allowed to do what they wanted, but it always seemed to be different rules and regs for the UK somehow. I cannot help but think if the EU had been prepared to discuss more and compromise, we would never have been in this mess in the first place. It's sad that it has taken the war in Ukraine for many to wake up and begin to work together.

The EU is a club with rules and standards WE decided we did not like them and left. Why should EU now compromise to suit us
Migration is separate it affects every EU country we take less than most EU countries so they have very little sympathy with the UK
Starmer will get some concession but there will be a price, that’s the way negotiation works.