Will the Supreme Court protect Women's Rights?

I find Rosie Duffield a bit unusual in this debate. She presents as very agreeable if you know what I mean, many of the other women in this fight are 'difficult' women ( I mean that as a compliment) whereas she is different. Her bravery is surprising in some ways. If I had been asked that question I would have told them to go and jump, but that's probably why I am not in politics.

If it's part of a general discussion on the issue, asking Rosie Duffield for her opinion about the effect on trans is not unreasonable, but whoever is being interviewed what I really disagree with is the continuous hostile type of approach

"do. you feel responsible for..." etc.

I agree Wyllow3 asking for Rosie's opinion is fine, but Derbyshire was quite hostile to Rosie. It's very telling that nobody is asking the question of how this will affect women and men who don't identify as transgender. It's almost as if they and their fears and feelings still don't matter.

Doodledog I think that people probably say things like "My trans friend" etc because overall this discussion can feel quite dehumanising towards trans people.

Rosie51

I agree Wyllow3 asking for Rosie's opinion is fine, but Derbyshire was quite hostile to Rosie. It's very telling that nobody is asking the question of how this will affect women and men who don't identify as transgender. It's almost as if they and their fears and feelings still don't matter.

Thats a very valuable post to make Rosie about consulting people. but I think non trans people people have given their opinions on phone ins and on social media.

Because my experience is that people who haven't been involved in the discussions with full information say all kinds of things just going from their own experiences and half heard stuff and who they know.

Phone ins will produce "men are men and women are women and trans dont exist thats that"

then "we should treat people with compassion and trans people are all individuals and have rights" and all sorts in between.

Let's face it, the details of the difference between sex and gender and its histories have just passed most people by.

Perhaps people who work on the front line should be consulted too?

Luminance

Doodledog I think that people probably say things like "My trans friend" etc because overall this discussion can feel quite dehumanising towards trans people.

Well yes, of course - nothing wrong with mentioning one's friends. It's just that given the small number of TW, it has often felt that Some Posters must know 70% of them personally, is all .

Doodledog

Well yes, of course - nothing wrong with mentioning one's friends. It's just that given the small number of TW, it has often felt that Some Posters must know 70% of them personally, is all.

Likewise because overall, for our friends or family members who are women and girls , on this and other similar discussion over the last few years, can feel quite dehumanising towards females.

But I don’t see any trans or their supporters rushing forward to offer apologies or sympathy to women who have been dehumanised.

Doodledog Ha! Well, There doesn't seem to be too many people here that do know trans people no. It's little wonder that the propaganda spread about trans people has such a strong effect when people don't know them I suppose.

Luminance

Doodledog Ha! Well, There doesn't seem to be too many people here that do know trans people no. It's little wonder that the propaganda spread about trans people has such a strong effect when people don't know them I suppose.

‘Ha’ - given trans people are such a tiny proportion of the population it’s no surprise that some posters don’t have personal relationships. Having said that, several regular posters have a trans grandchild so close personal relations.

What about the propaganda spread about women, gender critical women, women like JKR

Iam64 I don't know anything about that. It just seems to rather stand to reason that people who do know trans people who are good people might feel the need to defend them?

Luminance

Iam64 I don't know anything about that. It just seems to rather stand to reason that people who do know trans people who are good people might feel the need to defend them?

Of course they will, that's only natural - just as we should be as quick to condemn the very vocal trans lobby who have been very militant and abusive following the Supreme Court case. It is possible to do both, you know.

Iam64
What about the propaganda spread about women, gender critical women, women like JKR?

Luminance
I don't know anything about that.

🤣🤣🤣

You don’t know anything about that Luminance?

I wouldn't do anything like that. Why would I? Perhaps there is someone elsewhere you could direct those comments at? I denounce any kind of hate speech as I have asserted several times.

Luminance

I wouldn't do anything like that.

No one has said you would do anything like that, but you said you didn’t know anything about it.
How could you possibly have missed it? It hasn’t just been in social media, it’s been visible on the news.

How can you not know anything about the abuse that's been thrown at JKR Luminance .

I have no involvement whatsoever and have never said a single word to JK Rowling. No matter who it is you think I sound like.

Luminance

This gets weirder.
Who has said you have spoken to JKR?

I have. Well she sent me an email once. Well it was her office actually. It was a very nice email. In my head we are best friends

Luminance

I have no involvement whatsoever and have never said a single word to JK Rowling. No matter who it is you think I sound like.

Nobody is accusing you of anything and especially not of addressing JKR. Are you saying you have never heard that JKRowling gets online abuse, death and rape threats from TRAs and their allies?

I've read the comments saying I sound like a "TRA" you know but that's not true at all. I don't know what I have said that makes anyone think that?

I don't wish to be unkind and feel free not to answer Luminance but I wonder if English is your first language? I say that because when you say "I don't know anything about that" you obviously mean "I wasn't guilty of that" but posters mean 'aware of' by 'knowing about'. In other words have you never read a single word online or in newspapers about the abuse JKR gets? I've never had cosmetic surgery but 'I know about it' and have read accounts of successful and unsuccessful procedures.

Luminance

I've read the comments saying I sound like a "TRA" you know but that's not true at all. I don't know what I have said that makes anyone think that?

Evidence please?
Can you find those quotes and cite where we can find them?
I must have missed them.

Exactly what I have been thinking, Rosie51.
There is something strange about the phraseology and word order; the posts are frequently confusing and do not respond directly to the comments made or questions asked.

Rosie51

I don't wish to be unkind and feel free not to answer Luminance but I wonder if English is your first language? I say that because when you say "I don't know anything about that" you obviously mean "I wasn't guilty of that" but posters mean 'aware of' by 'knowing about'. In other words have you never read a single word online or in newspapers about the abuse JKR gets? I've never had cosmetic surgery but 'I know about it' and have read accounts of successful and unsuccessful procedures.

Yes of course I have heard of it but I don't understand it used in reference to me?

Luminance

Rosie51

I don't wish to be unkind and feel free not to answer Luminance but I wonder if English is your first language? I say that because when you say "I don't know anything about that" you obviously mean "I wasn't guilty of that" but posters mean 'aware of' by 'knowing about'. In other words have you never read a single word online or in newspapers about the abuse JKR gets? I've never had cosmetic surgery but 'I know about it' and have read accounts of successful and unsuccessful procedures.

Yes of course I have heard of it but I don't understand it used in reference to me?

I suppose because you mention slights, insults and vulnerability of transgender people but fail to acknowledge the very real violence and threats directed at the gender critical. So you do 'have knowledge' of the fact that JKR as an example receives these threats whereas you said "I don't know anything about that". Can you see why some of us are confused by your words?