Trans women and single-sex spaces

Again, I must ask, was there justice done in this case? I have not been able to trace the outcome and I would like to know if justice was served.

Luminance

Lathyrus3

I note that your query is for the outcome for the transgender rapist rather than for the outcome for the victim.

No prosecution or sentence can assuage the trauma suffered by the victim, both in the Rape itself and the subsequent insistence that no rape could have happened because there was no male in the ward.

So I am curious as to why you think this is the important factor in this case.

I simply wanted to know if someone were brought to justice. What an awful thing to say about someone else who has never given any reason for it.

What awful thing have I said?

I simply stated a fact that you were focused on the outcome for the rapist. Which you were.

I consider it a personal attack that you have posted that I said an awful thing about you when it is clearly untrue.

Was anyone brought to justice for that case? Or was there a different outcome that is being hidden? The responses are not making any sense to me.

Syracute

So annoying that there are two threads on this subject . At the days end no one will police this . The trans community will continue to use the spaces that suit their visible gender . What is anyone here going to do about this

Two people mentioned the upcoming Supreme Court case on this thread and we're ignored. That's why l started the other thread. The implications are far wider than single sex spacee and deserves it's own thread. Sorry its annoyed you, not.

Syracute

So annoying that there are two threads on this subject . At the days end no one will police this . The trans community will continue to use the spaces that suit their visible gender . What is anyone here going to do about this

The EHRC is going to publish it's recommendations in the summer. In the meantime Scotgov has requested a meeting with UKgov to work together on the implications of the judgement.
I am sure the trans activists will push their agenda, the police will have to police it, they are quite good at that kind of thing, catching shoplifters, not so much.

So annoying that there are two threads on this subject . At the days end no one will police this . The trans community will continue to use the spaces that suit their visible gender . What is anyone here going to do about this

Iam64

Yet again Luminance, you suggest another poster, in this case Lathyrus, is misinterpreting your comments
I also read your comment as focussed on whether the alleged rapist was prosecuted with no reference to the victim

Iam64
That’s because it was focussed in that way.

See quote from Luminance @ 20:21
I simply wanted to know if someone were brought to justice.

No mention of the outcome of the victim.

Yet again Luminance, you suggest another poster, in this case Lathyrus, is misinterpreting your comments
I also read your comment as focussed on whether the alleged rapist was prosecuted with no reference to the victim

Lathyrus3

I note that your query is for the outcome for the transgender rapist rather than for the outcome for the victim.

No prosecution or sentence can assuage the trauma suffered by the victim, both in the Rape itself and the subsequent insistence that no rape could have happened because there was no male in the ward.

So I am curious as to why you think this is the important factor in this case.

I simply wanted to know if someone were brought to justice. What an awful thing to say about someone else who has never given any reason for it.

That many are abused by many, and few are abused by few does not lessen the abuse.
Might need a formal logician. But get my gist. All these arguments that are being put forward by Glasweegran are the shaped responses fed to SNP supporters by extreme minority groups, that's what got Scotgov to the Supreme Court for yet another court defeat funded by the taxpayer.
The Supreme Court gave clarity and told Scotgov it cannot define woman to suit itself. The SNP is now a minority government that has completely forgotten its purpose - Independence.

Glasweegran

To clarify. The post I originally responded to was talking about Scotland, where I am, and my comments are in that light, particularly in the comments about prisons, where our existing procedures have prevented anything like the Karen White case in England, which happened under different rules.
That case was awful, but what is does point out is that when you can know the name of the person who committed these crimes, it shows how rare it is. Thousands of women a day are abused and assaulted by men, whereas instances of abuse by transwomen are so few and far between that we can know about them individually. There are far more cases of abuse by teachers, priests, scout leaders, sports coaches etc, but there isn't anyone saying that we shouldn't let men into those roles, (quite rightly so) but so why should far fewer instances justify a whole set of people being told they can't have the right to be who they are?

Should trans women have been legally allowed to be as natal women, any rape by a trans woman would have been recorded as a woman raping a woman. Where's the logic in that

I note that your query is for the outcome for the transgender rapist rather than for the outcome for the victim.

No prosecution or sentence can assuage the trauma suffered by the victim, both in the Rape itself and the subsequent insistence that no rape could have happened because there was no male in the ward.

So I am curious as to why you think this is the important factor in this case.

To clarify. The post I originally responded to was talking about Scotland, where I am, and my comments are in that light, particularly in the comments about prisons, where our existing procedures have prevented anything like the Karen White case in England, which happened under different rules.
That case was awful, but what is does point out is that when you can know the name of the person who committed these crimes, it shows how rare it is. Thousands of women a day are abused and assaulted by men, whereas instances of abuse by transwomen are so few and far between that we can know about them individually. There are far more cases of abuse by teachers, priests, scout leaders, sports coaches etc, but there isn't anyone saying that we shouldn't let men into those roles, (quite rightly so) but so why should far fewer instances justify a whole set of people being told they can't have the right to be who they are?

Iam64 I ignored nothing, I read it and am already aware. I have asked a question, is there an answer or not?

Rosie51

5 Supreme Court judges don't know what they're talking about but Glasweegran who's obviously a razor sharp legal mind with countless years of legal training could put them right in an instant. I don't think I've read such self serving abject nonsense on here before. The crazy ideas about biology just compound it, obviously people like Professor Robert Winston need a lesson in biology from her too.

Have you read the judgement? Never claimed to be an expert on anything, just someone who did the reading, and looked for answers myself. The organisations I mention are easy to look up, the variations in biology are easy to look up too.

Tell me which bit is nonsense and I can direct you to some sources.

Luminance

TerriBull

Karen White, rapist and transwoman sexually assaulted 2 women whilst on remand in a woman's prison. I'd say those victims lost their right not to be molested by a male bodied person whilst in a woman only space.

What about sportswomen forced to share a space with a male bodied person, made to feel uncomfortable, then told if they've got a problem, 'go and change in the women's toilets'

The woman who was raped whilst in an NHS hospital and told that couldn't have happened as there were no males on the ward, until a year later they were forced to admit there was a trans woman present at the time.

Just 3 examples of women being damaged by transwomen being in areas they shouldn't have been.

What was the outcome of this case? Was someone found guilty for it? I don't remember seeing it followed up.

You appear to be ignoring the distress caused to female athletes and focussing on whether the alleged rapist was successfully prosecuted.
The number of rape allegations is increasing despite how few are prosecuted, never mind successfully so

Wyllow3

Madgran77

Grantanow

What I meant was that now the Supreme Court has decided the matter there are far more important issues for the UK government to address, e.g., national security, the cost of living, energy policy, negotiating a better deal with the EU, tariffs, etc,

The Supreme Court has made a clear judgement but how even that will be interpreted in different organisations and scenarios is a big issue to be watched. Judging by the madness of some of the decisions made previously I think there is more to come as the implications of this judgement are "put into practice" by various organisations! And the government must take a lead on that as issues arise which they will. To be honest I expect mad decisions to be made that do not treat trans women with respect alongside mad decisions that misinterpret women's rights and men's rights! Watch this space

Well, I think it's going got be more complex than it might be simply because of resources. I think it is clear about protecting womens' spaces, but to give transgender people equality you also need to treat them with respect as regards access to certain necessities.

I think it is clear about protecting womens' spaces, but to give transgender people equality you also need to treat them with respect as regards access to certain necessities.

They will have to fight for that access, just as women have had to do for many years.

Hopefully, it might not take as long because women have blazed the way!

Glasweegran Fri 18-Apr-25 18:10:34

Gosh, you must get in touch with the Supreme Court judges immediately, Glasweegran!

They cannot be serious!

Allira

TerriBull

"The trans lobby has effectively prevented its reporting happening"

As in the case of the woman who was raped in hospital a couple of years ago, but according to the Police that couldn't be so as the alleged assailant was a trans woman, but hey lets not get too het up about that and what Lathyrus described or we could be accused of entering the Court of Moral Outrage, God forbid

Yes, I remember that case, Terribull, it was brought up in the House of Lords by Baroness Nicholson.

It was the hospital which denied it could have happened as, according to them, there was no male person on the ward.
^Nicholson told parliament’s upper chamber that “it has taken nearly a year for the hospital to agree that actually there was a male on the ward and yes this rape happened,” and this only because of evidence captured on CCTV footage.^

Luminance. The case of the rape in the NHS Hospital was discussed up thread, I don't know what the final outcome was.

To give transpeople access to certain necessities, you call the facilities mixed sex, not women or female only.
This should be simple enough for large organisations who have multiple facilities and just need to change the signage.
Very small places like cafes or dress shops etc. very often only have one lavatory or changing room anyway, they are mixed but it doesn't affect privacy because people go into them one at a time.
Perhaps also, now that less people work in office buildings all week, there may be more space in the buildings to add more facilities.
If there is the will to work things out, it can be done.

TerriBull

Karen White, rapist and transwoman sexually assaulted 2 women whilst on remand in a woman's prison. I'd say those victims lost their right not to be molested by a male bodied person whilst in a woman only space.

What about sportswomen forced to share a space with a male bodied person, made to feel uncomfortable, then told if they've got a problem, 'go and change in the women's toilets'

The woman who was raped whilst in an NHS hospital and told that couldn't have happened as there were no males on the ward, until a year later they were forced to admit there was a trans woman present at the time.

Just 3 examples of women being damaged by transwomen being in areas they shouldn't have been.

What was the outcome of this case? Was someone found guilty for it? I don't remember seeing it followed up.

Madgran77

Grantanow

What I meant was that now the Supreme Court has decided the matter there are far more important issues for the UK government to address, e.g., national security, the cost of living, energy policy, negotiating a better deal with the EU, tariffs, etc,

The Supreme Court has made a clear judgement but how even that will be interpreted in different organisations and scenarios is a big issue to be watched. Judging by the madness of some of the decisions made previously I think there is more to come as the implications of this judgement are "put into practice" by various organisations! And the government must take a lead on that as issues arise which they will. To be honest I expect mad decisions to be made that do not treat trans women with respect alongside mad decisions that misinterpret women's rights and men's rights! Watch this space

Well, I think it's going got be more complex than it might be simply because of resources. I think it is clear about protecting womens' spaces, but to give transgender people equality you also need to treat them with respect as regards access to certain necessities.

Exactly, Rosie51!

5 Supreme Court judges don't know what they're talking about but Glasweegran who's obviously a razor sharp legal mind with countless years of legal training could put them right in an instant. I don't think I've read such self serving abject nonsense on here before. The crazy ideas about biology just compound it, obviously people like Professor Robert Winston need a lesson in biology from her too.

There's no point in having single-sex spaces if both sexes can use them. And if all it takes for men to gain entry is to say to the attendant / management "I'm transgender", then actually both sexes can use them.