Well, we knew this would happen, didn't we? I mean Trump has made himself very clear on this issue.
Those of us who are not US citizens cannot do anything about this.
We can waste our time condemming it, or point out that it is odd that a society that still has the death penalty ( at least in certain states) finds it acceptable to force children to be born who were conceived during rape, incest or by parents knowing that they suffered from a serious hereditary illness, to say nothing of those doomed to a deprived childhood as their mothers cannot afford to support them.
Why not leave the US to solve its own internal problems, and concentrate on tidying up our own backyards?
Or make our views known considering the new American international policies that spell disaster?
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News & politics
Trump and Vance attack womens health rights
(111 Posts)Trump and Vance backed anti-abortion activists in March for Life speeches yesterday.
There was a rally yesterday in Washington, it was the annual March for Life rally and the first chance to see what intentions as regards womens health are now the election is over.
Two points of interest: Firstly, there has been a Federal Act in place, the federal Free Access to Clinic Entrances Act, which
penalizes people who threaten, obstruct or injure someone who is trying to access a reproductive health clinic – or who vandalize a clinic.
Trupp/Vance are pardoning all those convicted under the act,
Trump dramatically declaring they were realising the "persecuted".
Secondly concerns about access to abortions and related aspects of womens health, including criminalising abortion. We know already its only possible in certain states
But there are changes which are not so obvious Mike Johnson, (house speaker) "did win big cheers from the marchers, though, when he mentioned a recent executive order that declared that people are divided into male and female “at conception”.
That language evokes the doctrine of fetal personhood, which holds that embryos and fetuses should be granted full legal rights and protections – and which, if fully enacted, would totally outlaw abortion as well as potentially criminalize abortion patients
Most of the marchers feel there should be no exceptions - ie no abortions at all - except for ectopic pregnancy.
"Human life starts at conception,” said Henry Cooper, an 18-year-old march attender from California. “An abortion is never medically necessary. Ectopic pregnancy is something else. That’s not considered an abortion. There’s always something you can do.”
“Besides ectopic pregnancies, there are no cases where abortion improves the likelihood of the mother surviving other than a non-abortion way would,” agreed Luc Lessard, 18, of Colorado. “There’s no real cause for it.”This is just ignorance.
The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the pre-eminent membership organization for US ob-gyns, has repeatedly emphasized the medical need for abortion access. At least five women have reportedly died after abortion bans affected their medical care.
As of January 8, 2025, 12 states have banned abortion Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and West Virginia.
Here is a state by state summary of restrictions. You'll see it's very widespread, complex, and punitive.
www.context.news/money-power-people/roe-v-wade-which-us-states-are-banning-abortion#
(Quotes on abortion rally from the Guardian)
This is a useful reference for an authoritative text on the development of the foetus
www.britannica.com/science/sexual-differentiation
I am not sure 'dont have one' is an effective argument really. It isnt one we would apply to other debates, I was and am opposed to assisted dying, and to be fair I dont think anyone told those opposed to AD 'well just dont do it'. I am pro choice but think it is perfectly reasonable for people to hold different views on abortion.
Nothing yet, though I haven't read everything.
We can anticipate what is coming though by having a look at Project 2025. 2/3 of trumps orders mirror P2025 and there are at least 8 P2025 authors in his cabinet. The worst of which is Russel Vought. He is a main architect of P2025 amd will be in charge of all money for Federal.agencies.
During his confirmation hearing this week, he was asked if he plans to follow the impoundment law. He refused to answer the question.
Is anything being said about hysterectomies in childbearing age?
The US has rejoined Geneva Consensus Declaration.
Member countries can be found here. www.theiwh.org/the-gcd/
This group believes that women do not have a right to abortion.
Add this to the 4 states that have been allowed to sue to stop abortion medications from being sent through the mail.
We are about to have a nationwide abortion ban in the US.
I think women only should make any decisions about women’s matters.
I have news about ectopic pregnancies: it’s still considered a medical abortion. I’ve had an ectopic.
My stance is simple: if you believe abortion is murder, don’t have one. But laws shouldn’t be enacted to force personal beliefs upon everyone else.
It’s reproductive slavery.
Allsorts
Let America sort themselves out they don't dare what we think, why would they? We have more than enough doom and gloom with our government
We are women, we care about other women and their rights being slashed
JaneJudge
I completely agree with you, it should be the women/girl pregnant’s ultimate decision.
Casdon You’re so right, it’s not about our own personal feelings, those feeling strongly about never having abortion need not have one.
I feel most sorry for any women having a late miscarriage or a still born baby, all that grief and then being punished?
Jaberwok
Not that happy with abortion at all except under certain circumstances, but totally agree about late abortions. For me 16 weeks is the absolute maximum under any circumstances, and much earlier if at all possible. After that a baby is, a baby and for me it would be murder.
It’s not about you though, it’s about the girl/woman who is pregnant under such difficult circumstances that a baby would be impossible, or a baby which is severely disabled. The views of unaffected people, particularly those beyond childbearing age, and men are not relevant. The choice is not theirs to make.
Cossy
undines
Your language about terminations, murder the life within us, shows you have no understanding of the very real issues some women face.
Suppose you are 16 and pregnant via incest/rape (much more common than you’d think) You’d say this 16 year old is a murderer Would that also apply to the doctor carrying out this procedure?
does it matter if it was rape?
if any woman (teen, young, old), for whatever reason wants a termination of a pregnancy she comes first. Her body, her choice.
I'm not religious but I don't think understand the thinking behind forcing people to have children they don't want, especially in the US where there is no safety net
I just contrast the attitude to abortion against that of gun ownership. This is a few years old, but frighteningly relevant in Trump's USA:
How about we treat every young man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion—mandatory 48-hr waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor proving he understands what he's about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence, an ultrasound wand up the ass (just because). Let's close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photos of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun
It makes more sense to do this with young men and guns than with women and health care, right? I mean, no woman getting an abortion has killed a room full of people in seconds, right?
Skullduggery
Jaberwok
Not that happy with abortion at all except under certain circumstances, but totally agree about late abortions. For me 16 weeks is the absolute maximum under any circumstances, and much earlier if at all possible. After that a baby is, a baby and for me it would be murder.
Some tests for fetal abnormalities are unable to be carried out any earlier than 20 weeks, so 16weeks is far too early as a cut off point for abortion.
The world is over populated and no woman should be forced to birth a baby they are unable or unwilling to care for, for whatever reason.
I had a termination at 16 weeks the year before I had DD2 at 38. This was because the foetus was incompatible with life. How cruel that some sectors would have condemned me to carry a pregnancy to term with no hope of a successful outcome. I’d insisted on a scan as I knew something was amiss. 12 week scans weren’t done then. When I requested one an elderly male GP said “My dear, you’ve been reading too many women’s magazines”. I requested one again from another male GP who took me seriously. This was a very much wanted pregnancy.
Jaberwok
Not that happy with abortion at all except under certain circumstances, but totally agree about late abortions. For me 16 weeks is the absolute maximum under any circumstances, and much earlier if at all possible. After that a baby is, a baby and for me it would be murder.
Some tests for fetal abnormalities are unable to be carried out any earlier than 20 weeks, so 16weeks is far too early as a cut off point for abortion.
The world is over populated and no woman should be forced to birth a baby they are unable or unwilling to care for, for whatever reason.
Jaberwok
Not that happy with abortion at all except under certain circumstances, but totally agree about late abortions. For me 16 weeks is the absolute maximum under any circumstances, and much earlier if at all possible. After that a baby is, a baby and for me it would be murder.
I agree with you to an extent Jaberwok, but I believe some very serious, life-limiting and incurable conditions in the foetus can only be detected quite late in pregnancy. It would be very distressing to have to make the decision about whether or not to end the pregnancy in that situation, but I believe the woman should have that choice. I wonder what Trump would think about that situation were he the father of such a child? Walk away and leave the mother to raise it, probably.
LizzieDrip
^”In other words, uteri are state slush funds, and girls owe the state reproduction once they are capable of it.”^
Jesus Christ!
Thanks Wyllow.
Exactly! And it’s the moronic religious extremists who are behind this nonsense. 🤬
It brings The Handmaid’s Tale to mind. Margaret Atwood wasn’t far off events in the USA today. It sounds like living in Iran and Afghanistan although not quite as extreme. I’m so glad I don’t live in the USA right now.
Not that happy with abortion at all except under certain circumstances, but totally agree about late abortions. For me 16 weeks is the absolute maximum under any circumstances, and much earlier if at all possible. After that a baby is, a baby and for me it would be murder.
In some South American countries, women who have miscarriages are punished and jailed as if they had undergone abortions, which are illegal in those countries. Is that where the USA is heading?
It is an abomination all those states have banned abortions. Its all well saying get the morning after pill and not be sexually active. What about contraception not working as happens, victims of rape. Elon Musk has 12 children by three women to help re populate America. These daft women who do what he wants. Why? It takes two to make a baby, it’s absolving men of all responsibility. The women of America should avoid such men, it’s up to them, in fact I would do all I can to leave it. I would remain single all my life rather than live with such a man. Women hold as much power as men, just use it.
Grams2five
Additionally I was reading an article detailing how they’ve cut or halted funding. To institutes investigating cancer research as well as backed a ruling making it no longer necessary for their health insurance to cover mammograms and routine cancer screenings. I can’t imagine living in such a state
Yes, I read that too with great concern. Wondering how many pro-Trumpers are aware just how far reaching cuts will be.
I realise abortion has to take place for many reasons and rightly so but I think the rights of the child should always be considered as much as those of the woman.
Rosie51 apologies for my blasphemous comment.
No insult meant.
I would be very against late term abortions after 20 weeks gestation where the child would be born living and I do regard that as murder. Sometimes there are reasons for abortion like rape of the mother, incest, a severe disability of the child and of course in those circumstances an abortion may be the only way to go. I have a granddaughter who is an absolute delight and is now in her late teens at university. She was very,very premature and I realised when she was born how it must be for these late abortions. Definitely not on.
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