Winter Fuel Payment what would be fair

When the WFA was first introduced people like Anne Widdecombe were saying that they didn't need it. The argument then was that it would cost more to sort out those who didn't need it than it would save in the payments to them.

growstuff

How about increasing the state pension by a similar amount and taxing it?

How about just paying a decent state pension, then only those on pensions credit getting it?

Elusivebutterfly

I think the same household income level as Child Benefit would be fair. A lot of younger people were complaining about rich pensioners getting an unnecessary benefit so this would make it equal.
Being household based, rather than individual, is fair. Very few single female pensioners have a high pension. Mine is above Pension Credit but below minimum wage, which I think would be the same for most women.

Do you know how high the child benefit cap is?

The majoirty of well off pensioners are not in the higher tax bands, so looking to them to cover the withdrawal of WFA wont even touch the cost of it.

The median pensioner household income (meaning 50% of pensioners get more, and 50% get less) was just under £28,000 lst year. The vast majority of the upper income half of pension households will have an income between £28,000 and £50,000 approx. and will be on the basic tax rate.

Mamie

Boz

I was surprised to read that WFA was being paid to pensioners living abroad. Do ex-pats in Spain really need it?
Pensioners are seen as Tory and their vote not very important to Labour.

The WFA is not paid to pensioners in Spain, France, Gibralter, Malta, Cyprus or Greece. It is paid in Scandinavian countries, Latvia, Lithuania and other countries known for their multitudes of migrant UK pensioners (not).

And, Boz, you’ll doubtless be even more surprised to learn that WFAs were stopped for British people living in Spain 9 years ago !
And maybe get your facts right before trying to blame anyone other than the government for this latest completely irresponsible idea! Older people everywhere do get cold - not everyone lives on the beach!

dayvidg

Why not just make it taxable? That way the reduction would be graduated with no 'cliff edge'.

That's the most sensible way to do it.

Visgir1

Why not give to people who's Community charge is Band E and under?

That would be unfair.

There are older people who may need or wish to downsize but suitable properties are just not available.
Why, too, should elderly people be forced to move away from an area where they may have friends, family and a support network?

They are also paying a lot in Council tax and contributing plenty to local services.

I agree Casdon. I think the lower tax allowance should be set at about £20k, with stepped increases between that and £150k, where there should be a significant rise.

Three bands is not enough. There is a huge difference in spending power between £50 and £100k, as there is between £12571 and £50270, so the lower and middle income bands should be merged with several smaller steps between them, starting at around £20k, which is two thirds of average. That way, someone on £22k would pay (eg) 20%, someone on £30k 22% etc, with nothing on the first £20k, all the way to £150k where the rate would be fixed at something like 50% of anything over that. Someone clever than I would have to do the sums to stop there being sharp rises though - it is wrong to have a sudden increase that makes a promotion cost someone money.

Casdon

I think the pension credit threshold should be changed so that more people are eligible. They would then also receive other benefits not just a winter fuel allowance. I wonder if there is a way of them being alerted specifically, as there are thousands who are eligible but haven’t applied yet. I’d also like to see the personal allowance raised so that more people who now pay tax on a small income don’t have to do so.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

When I was at college (decades ago) doing Local Gov stuff, the main criteria for taxation of any sort, was that it’s relatively simple to understand and easy/cheap to collect. The same goes for benefits given - hence the one size fits all approach.

I really don’t understand how they are going to work this out. They will have to employ more staff to work out who is entitled and who isn’t. Won’t they ?

I think the pension credit threshold should be changed so that more people are eligible. They would then also receive other benefits not just a winter fuel allowance. I wonder if there is a way of them being alerted specifically, as there are thousands who are eligible but haven’t applied yet. I’d also like to see the personal allowance raised so that more people who now pay tax on a small income don’t have to do so.

Boz

I was surprised to read that WFA was being paid to pensioners living abroad. Do ex-pats in Spain really need it?
Pensioners are seen as Tory and their vote not very important to Labour.

The WFA is not paid to pensioners in Spain, France, Gibralter, Malta, Cyprus or Greece. It is paid in Scandinavian countries, Latvia, Lithuania and other countries known for their multitudes of migrant UK pensioners (not).

Visgir1

welbeck

because that will discriminate against people who live in areas where house/flat prices are higher.
they may have an old draughty house, with little spare to heat or renovate it.
nor the emotional strength to move.

Don't local price of houses detect that regardless of the cost of your house?
I live on the south coast it's a expensive area. A Band C here is probably a Band D in an other less expensive area's of the UK.

That's not how it works. Bands are decided based on a drive-past valuation in 1990 (or nearabouts). The differentials between houses are the same all over the country, it's just that there will be fewer Band H ones in poorer areas.

Welbeck's right that someone could have a relatively valuable house and no spare money though. The whole banding of properties to determine what people 'can afford' is iniquitous, IMO.

The cut off point to claim pension credit is too hard . If someone is £1 over they can not claim any help . The cut off point needs to be a sliding scale . So those with a small private pension which takes them over the pension credit point can apply and receive the help needed .

dayvidg

Why not just make it taxable? That way the reduction would be graduated with no 'cliff edge'.

Totally agree.

If pensions were at a proper rate then these little 'extras' would not need to be paid. Ten pounds xmas Allowance ( etc!!),

It has been downright stupid in the past where this money was paid out to wealthy, even milliionaire pensioners, just on the account of their age, whilst so many children in this country live in poverty, many of them without even having their own bed to sleep in.

When times are hard, it is usual in most societies to first - protect the young = but not here - suppose it is because the young do not vote!!!

The obscene payouts to bosses and shareholders of energy companies could go a long way to reducing energy bills for everyone, and thereby not requiring WFA at all. The Standing Charge on my Gas usage is more than the amount of gas I use,, and then VAT is charged on the total amount.

We are complaining about the wrong things and to the wrong people. The current government was never elected as a Socialist government - the last chance of one of those was finished back when Corbyn was pushed out.

For the past fourteen years a very capitalistic government has been in power, and it will take more than one or two years to even start to undo all the damage they have done.

welbeck

because that will discriminate against people who live in areas where house/flat prices are higher.
they may have an old draughty house, with little spare to heat or renovate it.
nor the emotional strength to move.

Don't local price of houses detect that regardless of the cost of your house?
I live on the south coast it's a expensive area. A Band C here is probably a Band D in an other less expensive area's of the UK.

because that will discriminate against people who live in areas where house/flat prices are higher.
they may have an old draughty house, with little spare to heat or renovate it.
nor the emotional strength to move.

Why not give to people who's Community charge is Band E and under?

I agree with paying it to people on the lower tax band, and not to those on higher or additional. I'm not sure how it works currently, but I think it should go to individuals (if the current system is to make one payment to a couple this could be halved) rather than households. I would also like to see an option to opt out - although obviously it is possible to give it to charity, people might prefer to leave it in the coffers so it can be diverted elsewhere.

Mouseybrown60

How about taking it away from people in the higher or additional tax brackets?

this would seem a simple method to exclude the millionaires etc, those who obviously don't need it.
nobody needs to apply/beg, and the govt does not have to wade through long application forms, with appeals etc.
it would seem a cost-effective solution.
and also benefit me personally, so i think it's a good idea.

Our state pension is one of the lowest paid in Europe. If we received a decent pension, benefits would not have to be applied for so money and manpower could be saved.

I have just sent an email to my MP re the WFA. They have been surprised at the number of letters etc. they have received. Really?

I was surprised to read that WFA was being paid to pensioners living abroad. Do ex-pats in Spain really need it?
Pensioners are seen as Tory and their vote not very important to Labour.

How about increasing the state pension by a similar amount and taxing it?