Keir Starmer aka Captain Flip Flop

What?
Another sweeping statement, and even worse, saying that individuals don’t matter IYO.
🤣🤣🤣

I’m just more interested in the impact on the majority of any policy decisions than I am in the impact on the minority Mollygo. So often people relate everything to the personal impact rather than the wider. Don’t misinterpret that to imply that I don’t have empathy for people who lose out because I do, and I certainly don’t want anybody to be unable to heat their home, or to live on the poverty line - as I’m positive the government don’t either.

Casdon, you asked, I answered.
Yours is the sweeping statement approach, so you will undoubtedly apply your findings to the whole population.
Do feel free to look up whatever you want.
You believe . . . but I know.

It won’t affect the fact that I know the impact on DH’s pension was and is detrimental by several thousands.
We still have paperwork about it we collected at the time.
This also applied to many of the people we knew at the time, some of whom we still know now. Strangely enough it also came under discussion with my DD’s in-laws and their friends when we met up around the time of her marriage and since.
But hey, if we’re criticising the Labour Party, the sweeping statement makers will say I must be wrong.
They should consider themselves fortunate that they weren’t affected, or they’d know too.

We weren’t pensioners back then either, but we saw the impact of his actions both them and now.

Mollygo

^Things didn’t improve for us under the previous govt, and for many many people things got worse. That’s factual.^

I haven’t seen anybody disagree with that, despite Labour supporters’ claims on this or other threads . . .

but

*That’s exactly what I said about the last Labour government, and we’re still feeling the impact of that now. That’s factual.*

I've no problems tracing back any political issue. Such and such a law on 2006 or whenever later was changed by X and Y law so we now find ourselves in this situation: and the Labour or Conservative parties' actions had certain consequences. Thatcher's selling of social housing, or the decision to go to war in Iraq, are examples.

It's when bits and bobs of half informational are used inaccurately to create false narratives is the problem.

ifs.org.uk/publications/how-have-pensioner-incomes-and-poverty-changed-recent-years

I’m not a child Mollygo, nor am I academically challenged. What I was asking was whether you were talking about yourself, the Gransnet ‘us’, or about the whole population of the UK. A reasonable question I believe. I wasn’t a pensioner when Gordon Brown left office, but I believe that as a group pensioners were on average better off in 2010 than they were by the end of the subsequent Tory governments, but I may be wrong on that. I’ll find out.

Dickens During the pandemic/lockdown(s) government pumped money into the economy - much of which I believe ended up in the pockets of the wealthiest. Where do they spend their wealth - conspicuously? Designer handbags? Jewellery? I think they spend it more quietly - on education, ensuring the continuation of the privileges of wealth, on health, property and investments. And their accountants, who accommodate their need to legitimately avoid tax as far as possible.

Who are these people? I can think of Michelle Mone and her ilk who have transferred large amounts offshore, formed companies to purchase PPE and then included family members in those companies. And then of course large yachts were purchased with with the owners posing on the deck with bottles of champagne 9MM again).

The govt did help to a certain extent with the SEISS which the rules for claiming were very strict. Many self employed individuals did not qualify for this including some on here.

They also guaranteed Bounce Back Loans - the maximum lent was £50k. They were intended to support businesses but many directors misused the money by using it to fund personal spending. Perhaps they are the people that you were thinking of?

The furlough scheme was successful in keeping people in employment

Casdon
Just to explain . . .
Us is a plural pronoun people use when they’re referring to more than one person in a group. In this instance I used it in referring to my DH and myself together, though I’m quite sure that we weren’t /aren’t the only ones impacted by Gordon Brown’s actions.

As for the sweeping statement - 🤣🤣🤣
There are so many on GN, that the floors must be immaculate!

MaizieD

^Those people who are only receiving benefits, including the state pension, do not need the PA to be increased since these are not taxable.^

To clarify, Dinahmo, I thought on earlier threads about the personal allowance that we had established that the state pension would be taxable if it were to exceed the personal allowance. At the moment neither the 'new' or the 'old' basic state pension exceeds the PA but there is potential for this happen if the pension rises but the PA remains frozen.

I',m just asking for clarification because, as it is written, you seem to imply that the state pension isn't taxable because it is a benefit. I suspect that is not what you intended..

You are quite right. The state pension is taxable if the recipient receives other income which takes them over the threshold. The point I was trying to make was that any one receiving pension credits plus the state pension would not have any tax to pay, even if the total of those "benefits" exceeds the PA. This is based upon current figures not a possible increase in the SP.

I do think that all those currently not receiving the pension credit but are entitled to it should claim. It is not difficult to do on HMRC's website.

Here's a link for any one who wishes to claim or who would help someone not used to using computers. It can also be claimed by post.

www.gov.uk/pension-credit/how-to-claim

Mollygo

^Things didn’t improve for us under the previous govt, and for many many people things got worse. That’s factual.^

I haven’t seen anybody disagree with that, despite Labour supporters’ claims on this or other threads . . .

but

*That’s exactly what I said about the last Labour government, and we’re still feeling the impact of that now. That’s factual.*

Which ‘us’ do you mean, and in what context Mollygo?

I can’t agree with such a sweeping statement, because there are winners and losers from all policies and over all terms of government, whichever party is in power.

Things didn’t improve for us under the previous govt, and for many many people things got worse. That’s factual.

I haven’t seen anybody disagree with that, despite Labour supporters’ claims on this or other threads . . .

but

That’s exactly what I said about the last Labour government, and we’re still feeling the impact of that now. That’s factual.

If something pops up on Facebook that I agree with before I re post it I check up on who originally posted it. And recently a couple of posts about the WFP have originated from people who also post videos of Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson. Which is why I keep querying the motive ie not a genuine concern about a specific issue but a desire to discredit the government and encourage confrontation.

The fiscal rules are just made up.

As a Labour Party member I feel free and not afraid to call them out, as I have in GN on the level at which WFA is withdrawn. Have written to RR and local Lab MP and so on and it will come up in local meetings except of course not in August.

So can I clarify if this is what what Maerion uncovered:

Words used in 2022 have been used to say that Starmer "flip flopped" on a direct promise apparently made recently, when he did not, and the accusation has been made on spurious grounds

Not blaming the O/P for picking this misinformation up, but to say - a Facebook Social Media post (not in MM) has led to pages of bitterness and recriminations and people leaving

- words fail. How dangerous this all is.

MayBee70

Tony Benn once told me ‘don’t be cynical, be critical’ and I will always be critical even if it’s criticism of my own party. To be fair to Keir when he was in opposition he always said he would support the government if it was in the best interest of the country to do so. I hope, with so many awful things happening both here and abroad, that parliament will continue to behave in that way. And that we can all work together to make the country a better place.

Hear hear

Tony Benn once told me ‘don’t be cynical, be critical’ and I will always be critical even if it’s criticism of my own party. To be fair to Keir when he was in opposition he always said he would support the government if it was in the best interest of the country to do so. I hope, with so many awful things happening both here and abroad, that parliament will continue to behave in that way. And that we can all work together to make the country a better place.

GrannyGravy13

Cossy where have I said that the previous Government did not deserve to be critiqued ?

I voted for the previous Government, I disagreed with a lot of what happened during their tenure.

I think most Conservatives on GN became immune to the many insults posted towards those of you that voted for this Government etc.

I think anyone has a right to critique the govt in power, whoever they are and whoever they voted for.

I do hope this govt make a positive difference, not because I voted for them, but because we ALL desperately need them to do so.

Whitewavemark2

Misinformation is becoming a scourge.

It’s terribly dangerous and inflammatory.

AGAA4

I find it hard to think that someone I know who is just slightly over the threshold for pension credit is having to plan her winter. It will mean riding on buses and spending time in the library for warmth. At home she will rely on blankets and hot water bottles.
I just hope she keeps well as she knows she can't afford heating.

That’s truly awful.

I do remember the days, like we all do, before central heating. The only room warm in my gran’s house (we lived there for a while) was the front room as she had an open fire, the rest of the house was freezing, especially the bedrooms and bathrooms.

We all had home knitted jumpers and thick eiderdowns over our sheets and blankets. We all wore layers in the house. My grandparents somehow survived winters, though some didn’t.

Misinformation is becoming a scourge.

And using the sort of term in the heading that is being bandied around by Musk on X which was my problem with it. Surely we need to question why Musk et al are doing this and why it is being spread around far and wide on social media?

Cossy where have I said that the previous Government did not deserve to be critiqued ?

I voted for the previous Government, I disagreed with a lot of what happened during their tenure.

I think most Conservatives on GN became immune to the many insults posted towards those of you that voted for this Government etc.

I find it hard to think that someone I know who is just slightly over the threshold for pension credit is having to plan her winter. It will mean riding on buses and spending time in the library for warmth. At home she will rely on blankets and hot water bottles.
I just hope she keeps well as she knows she can't afford heating.

maddyone

At the end of the day, the OP posted a link showing Keir Starmer saying that he wouldn’t remove WFA from pensioners.
Last week WFA was removed from pensioners.
That is what the whole thread is about.

No, no, no. What he says in the linked clip is:

I went to Dewsbury, winter before last in the height of the energy crisis ... (so that would be 2022) … He talks about what one person was doing to keep warm and another person’s experience with shop prices. He says nothing about WFP.

Everybody was suffering in 2022. It’s why the government gave all households £400 under the Energy Bill Support Scheme, upped the WFP temporarily (leaving the higher amount in place for 2023) and gave Cost of Living payments to the poorest (or based on council tax bands which isn't the same thing but was a quick and easy way to get money to people).

Since then, energy prices have come down several times - see the chart - while state pension was increased by 10.1% in April 2023 and 8.5% in April 2024.

Inflation is substantially down from where it was two and one winters ago. It was running at 11% in autumn 2022. It's now down to 2%.

This is not two years ago which is what Starmer was referring to in the clip.

Recently here, someone posted a clip from Martin Lewis saying that energy prices could be going up by 70%. It was a clip he recorded in 2022 during the energy crisis. I asked the poster to ask the mods to take it down because it was fake news. They did.

This is what is annoying me - that people are using clips about 2022 to talk about now and, in this instance, claiming Starmer said something that he didn't. It's misinformation.