Anyone else feel a sense of impending doom that we’ll have a Labour government tomorrow?

OldFrill I spoke to a member of Reform recently and REFORM of the Civil Service, House of Lords, voting system and getting political power back to Parliament were listed. From another perspective, this country is currently in a state of anarchy.
It’s perfectly true that Reform are disrupters but how did this country get to a position where it needed to be disrupted? Who are the true patriots?

You can’t be a member of Reform as it’s not a party but a limited company, Will be interesting to read the declaration of interests of Nigel Farage and co when MPs have to come clean about their financial affairs. Will they have to declare the income of Reform?

vegansrock £25 annual membership available online. Of course you can be a member of Reform ….

People who pay a subscription to Reform are supporters, not members of a democratic party. They have no voting rights.

Casdon

People who pay a subscription to Reform are supporters, not members of a democratic party. They have no voting rights.

Casdon give Reform time to build a membership and then voting rights will follow. A remarkable 6 weeks all in all and they’re not going away.

What does voting rights in the Labour or Conservative Party give you if you join them?

Labour

Democracy!

Primarily the opportunity to choose the leadership, and feed into party policy.

Reform does none of those things.

ronib

Casdon

People who pay a subscription to Reform are supporters, not members of a democratic party. They have no voting rights.

Casdon give Reform time to build a membership and then voting rights will follow. A remarkable 6 weeks all in all and they’re not going away.

That is a contradiction in terms, you cannot have membership of something that is a private limited company.

In a long but very intersting article I found this summary of what Reform is:

Reform company documents reveal a unique structure for a UK political Party which gives almost total control to its leader, Tice. The structure has been criticised for not providing the party’s more than 115,000 paying registered supporters with any voting power to influence policy. Perhaps the party’s funders and shareholders have more say.

The full and very detailed article can be found at ]]bylinetimes.com/2024/01/18/reform-uk-limited-the-political-business-brought-to-you-by-billionaires/]]

The chances of Reform 'members' getting any voting rights stand at roughly 0%

From another perspective, this country is currently in a state of anarchy

ronib that’s what Farage et al would like people to think, as it aligns with their ‘anti-establishment’ agenda.

The country is clearly not in a state of anarchy - our democratic election, smooth transfer of power and functioning government, have just proved that.

LizzieDrip

^From another perspective, this country is currently in a state of anarchy^

ronib that’s what Farage et al would like people to think, as it aligns with their ‘anti-establishment’ agenda.

The country is clearly not in a state of anarchy - our democratic election, smooth transfer of power and functioning government, have just proved that.

Agreed, Lizziedrip.

If anarchy is a state of lawlessness and disorder caused by an absence of cohesive government, then it feels as though we are moving away from that towards the sunlit uplands .

We will have to wait and see how things work out so I am not going to worry about anything at the moment. It is early days yet, so let them get on with it.

If they mess up, they won't be elected again.

NO!
A sensible man with integrity in charge! Bring it on. If we have to pay more for a better country for everyone so be it. With those who have the most, giving the most.
Those of us who enjoyed free university, good health services and low housing costs owe it to the young to improve things for them.

In the last fourteen years of Tory rule the number of food bank users has risen to 2.56 million. Many people are on their knees due to cost of living increases.

I am hopeful that a new labour government will be better at tackling these and other social issues.

Impending doom? No! I feel cautious optimism.

MaizieD Tice won’t have any option but to move to membership with voting rights if he wants the party to grow. There’s little point in beating the drum about the way the country is governed unless Reform itself has democratic legitimacy.

growstuff

Impending doom? No! I feel cautious optimism.

As do I.

We have nothing like a state of anarchy in this country, we have witnessed a polite, courteous hand over of power, although I do expect things to become more confrontational once the Tories sort themselves out. As for Reform, a shoal of small noisy fish in a very big pond.

Doodledog and LizzieDrip there’s recognition that this country has now moved away from lawlessness and disorder but caused by an absence of cohesive government? Surely caused by a bureaucracy which failed to endorse the policies of the Conservative government?
However if the sunlit uplands are in sight under Labour, all well and good as this country is in desperate need of better governance. But it’s very early days and the bureaucracy is happy for the time being. Will it last?

What astonishes me is that anyone expected anything different.
13 years of Labour, made people want a change because they weren’t happy about what the party in power was doing.
14 years of Conservatives, people wanted a change because they weren’t happy about what the party in power was doing.
If we are alive long enough to see it, maybe it will be 15 years before we get fed up this time.

ronib

Doodledog and LizzieDrip there’s recognition that this country has now moved away from lawlessness and disorder but caused by an absence of cohesive government? Surely caused by a bureaucracy which failed to endorse the policies of the Conservative government?
However if the sunlit uplands are in sight under Labour, all well and good as this country is in desperate need of better governance. But it’s very early days and the bureaucracy is happy for the time being. Will it last?

What concrete examples do you have that the "bureaucracy" (whatever that is) has failed to endorse Conservative policies?

Blimey ronib have you swallowed Reform hook line and sinker😄😄.

I would take a deep breath if I were you

Mollygo

What astonishes me is that anyone expected anything different.
13 years of Labour, made people want a change because they weren’t happy about what the party in power was doing.
14 years of Conservatives, people wanted a change because they weren’t happy about what the party in power was doing.
If we are alive long enough to see it, maybe it will be 15 years before we get fed up this time.

I didn't expect any different. What I didn't expect was that the government and Conservative Party would end up as a shambles. I remember that when Blair won in 1997, people were ready for a change, but I don't remember the government being so chaotic.

growstuff the evidence is that the Association for the First Division took the Conservative government to court to challenge the legality of its immigration policy. The judge found in favour of the government.
Just to be clear I am not a supporter of Reform …… I have not paid £25!

Sallywally1

In the last fourteen years of Tory rule the number of food bank users has risen to 2.56 million. Many people are on their knees due to cost of living increases.

I am hopeful that a new labour government will be better at tackling these and other social issues.

The new government are not interested in food banks. According to what’s been reported so far, the government is interested in ending the Rwanda plan, forging closer links with the EU via David Lammy who has already started talks with the EU, and changing the planning laws in order to build more houses. These are the priorities for the new government.

Oh, I forgot, reopening talks with the doctors - thank goodness.

maddyone

Oh, I forgot, reopening talks with the doctors - thank goodness.

I’m hoping they get somewhere with the doctors too.
35% pay rise-if they settle for less, I wonder why they’ve been out on strike so much.
Lots more doctors, Hundreds more GP appointments. Bring it on!