Immigration and migrants

GSM, I suppose you are right, but other countries ask for it and it takes time to be accepted, learning the language and our laws and practises of their. adored country means they really want to be here. To say you’re one religion to escape persecution is gaining entry by false pretences and they should be sent back as it denying genuine claimants. It’s so frustrating. We are just so complacent.

Germanshepherdsmum

Casdon

growstuff

Callistemon21

Yes, I wondered about using DNA but that again throws up questions about individuals' rights, whether or not the DNA would be kept on a database etc.
Can it prove exact country of origin too?

No, it can't.

I believe the theory is that the more DNA samples there are, the closer it’s possible to link individuals to families. It can prove exact country of origin if there are very close matches already on the system, ie family members, but only then. However, as part of the information gathering process when people first enter Europe they are more likely to have documentation, and to volunteer personal information, so it’s all recorded,

If close family members were born in country A, it’s entirely possible that the person being tested was born and lived elsewhere. So DNA cannot conclusively prove an individual’s country of origin.

It can’t, but once you know the details of family members, particularly parents and full siblings it makes it easier to identify people. I presume you don’t disagree that access to Eurodac would be very helpful in identifying who people are?

maddyone they are advised by the people smugglers to get rid of all forms of personal identification they have when they leave their home countries.

You will only have details of family if they are on a DNA database. Eurodac only contains fingerprints and gender of people known to have entered a country illegally, no names or photographs, and the details are automatically deleted after 18 months. There fore I don’t see how it could help the UK to identify asylum seekers if we still had access to it.

Eurodac does an awful lot more than that Germanshepherdsmum, but if you feel it’s a waste of UK effort to get involved with it, please feel free to say so.
www.eulisa.europa.eu/Publications/Information%20Material/Leaflet%20EU-LISA_Eurodac_EN.pdf

Its only use is to highlight multiple cases of applications for asylum. It stores, for a limited period, only fingerprints and gender - no names, no photos. I don’t know how you think that would be of use to the UK.

petra

Cossy
Which part was horrifying the amount of money paid or the corruption at Calais. I’ve known about Calais for years through a harbour master at Dover.
Of course I’ve never said anything because it wouldn’t be believed especially on GN. But now it’s out there. It’s the same at Zeebrugge.

Frankly all of it! Awful and the only good thing is the amount of effort made to catch the corrupt people smugglers, the Calais officials should be identified and sent to prison. It makes even more of a mockery of us sending them vast sums of money.

Primrose
There is more I could say about this but last week got a real dressing down from someone who said I should not share “tittle tattle” from a person I know who works for Border Force.

Don’t let that bother you. Ignore them, I do. Don’t allow them to dictate what you post.

Feel free to say what you want Primrose. Information from the horse’s mouth is useful.

Germanshepherdsmum

Feel free to say what you want Primrose. Information from the horse’s mouth is useful.

I agree, so long as you’re not breaking a person’s confidence.

I think we know Primrose well enough to be sure she wouldn’t do that.

they are advised by the people smugglers to get rid of all forms of personal they have when they leave their home countries

But why?

We did have some success with the Albanian Government. I wondered about doing the same with young Vietnamese who are often the ones paying £££££ saved up by families lured by social media promises.

Government has started a social Media campaign
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68653368#:~:text=Overall%2C%20the%20number%20of%20people,among%20those%20crossing%20the%20Channel.

Dont now if any approach made to government.

The stats show more young women coming in than men which is most unusual. God knows what has been promised to them by smugglers or the reality.

'An increasing number are arriving in the UK in small boats, with a total of 3,356 arriving since 2018.
The majority of Vietnamese immigrants arriving illegally in the UK are now women.
This contrasts to the trend of all other nationalities, more than three quarters of whom are male.19 Apr 2024"

maddyone

^they are advised by the people smugglers to get rid of all forms of personal they have when they leave their home countries ^

But why?

I think its to protect the smugglers actually or at least partly so.
If you have a boat landing with lots of ID's you could trace smugglers back more easily? Likely people not given a choice.

Thank you for answering Wyllow but I don’t think you’re right. My suspicion is that it’s so asylum seekers cannot be returned to their country of origin if refused asylum.

Of course it is, otherwise why not keep your papers.

Despite claims to the contrary the official Migration Advisory Committee has found little evidence of overseas graduate students misusing the rules to stay on in the UK and has written to Cleverly along that line. Indeed, they think some students are being exploited by education providers and agents.

If there is a problem I think it’s more likely to be with undergraduate students.

Germanshepherdsmum

Casdon

growstuff

Callistemon21

Yes, I wondered about using DNA but that again throws up questions about individuals' rights, whether or not the DNA would be kept on a database etc.
Can it prove exact country of origin too?

No, it can't.

I believe the theory is that the more DNA samples there are, the closer it’s possible to link individuals to families. It can prove exact country of origin if there are very close matches already on the system, ie family members, but only then. However, as part of the information gathering process when people first enter Europe they are more likely to have documentation, and to volunteer personal information, so it’s all recorded,

If close family members were born in country A, it’s entirely possible that the person being tested was born and lived elsewhere. So DNA cannot conclusively prove an individual’s country of origin.

Exactly! What Home Office officials do when they conduct face-to-face interviews is test whether people know about the place they claim to have been living. They also have people who recognise different dialects. They ask them, for example, where they went to school or where they did their shopping.

DNA can never give an accurate place of birth. Isotope testing could, but I don't suppose many immigrants would consent to having one of their teeth or a bit of bone removed for isotope testing, which in any case would give an indication where a person spent their formative years, but wouldn't take into account moves after that.

Germanshepherdsmum

If there is a problem I think it’s more likely to be with undergraduate students.

Agreed! However, courses offering "bogus" courses with a very high drop out rate have mainly been dealt with. My partner runs a masters course at a RG university. Over half his students are from overseas and pay a fortune for their courses. Multiply that by the number of postgrad students in the country and it's easy to see they're keeping most universities (apart from Oxford and Cambridge, which have enough money of their own) afloat.

Clicked too soon.

Most of the overseas students return to their home countries, although a few of the very best are snapped up by biotech companies in the UK and go on to contribute to the British economy.

Freya5

Of course it is, otherwise why not keep your papers.

There are reports that they are forced to hand over their papers to the smugglers and traffickers.

Anyway, it's good news that one of the ring-leaders has now been arrested in Iraqi Kurdistan.

The public doesn't know what's going on behind the headlines.

Papers/documents can be hidden from smugglers in clothing.
I think the only reason immigrants get rid of them is on advice from smugglers and other immigrants, as it’s so hard for the UK or any authorities to find out where they originate, who they really are and so on.

growstuff

Freya5

Of course it is, otherwise why not keep your papers.

There are reports that they are forced to hand over their papers to the smugglers and traffickers.

Anyway, it's good news that one of the ring-leaders has now been arrested in Iraqi Kurdistan.

The public doesn't know what's going on behind the headlines.

Yes I saw that had happened. Excellent news. I have said previously just because we don't hear all, doesn't mean it is not happening behind the scenes.

I do wonder if we need to keep some third-rate universities 'afloat' by letting them charge overseas students vast sums. Of course it's export income to the UK.

They have to get funds from somewhere to keep their courses viable. I don't think the government gives them much (if anything)