NHS U turn on trans terminology

Good news Doodledog. Thanks for the detailed post.
Single sex wards -a good idea, especially if it means no more transwomen, blatantly displaying their wares on female mental health wards where some patients were there because of trauma caused by men, and the staff were too afraid to do anything.
eazybee I’m glad your experience was different, but the opportunity for it not to be so, should be removed.

Sago

Now we need to get rid of Stonewall.

This. 👏

Mixed wards are not the issue, any more than male doctors. The issue (or this part of it) is informed consent - knowing who is in the bed next to you, and who is doing intimate care. We have a right to that, which has been eroded, but luckily (or more accurately because of pressure from biological realists and the sacrifices of brave people who have given such a lot) it is coming back.

The erasure of women in the language is important too. Words are vital to how we understand the world, and if women are reduced to body parts or biological functions our identity will be seen in those terms too. As Parsley says, what is the status of a ‘person with ovaries’ if she doesn’t have ovaries? What is a woman if a man can be one?

petra

Is The Royal Stoke hospital going to remove this.

Perhaps they should remove the manager who decided it was a good idea.
Her salary would fund several nurses and perhaps help reduce waiting times at that particular hospital.

I can’t imagine a hospital that doesn’t ‘welcome’ people of various sexualities. Who someone has sex with (or who they would like to have sex with) must only matter to a nurse or doctor treating them when their ailment is related in some way.

Doodledog

I can’t imagine a hospital that doesn’t ‘welcome’ people of various sexualities. Who someone has sex with (or who they would like to have sex with) must only matter to a nurse or doctor treating them when their ailment is related in some way.

Precisely.

I don't think anyone has ever asked me, although I do have a first consultation in a couple of weeks time so I'll be prepared.

I never understood 'chest feeding'. Men have breasts and nipples.

A sensible decision and a tick for the Conservatives, even though I am unlikely to ever vote for them.

⬇️

Stella Creasy must be raving mad. 🤪 A woman with a penis is what I would call a MAN

Such good sensible news for a change.

eazybee

I was in a mixed ward in 2005 and extremely grateful to be there. The men were not the slightest bit intrusive and our dignity, and theirs, was preserved at all times. The staff constantly rearranged the beds to group the sexes together, apart from new arrivals who were kept close to the nursing station for observation.

I think things have gone down the pan since then eazybee. That was nearly 20 years ago. The NHS is stretched to the limit and there are huge staff shortages. I don't think anyone would have time to rearrange beds and overly worry about patients' dignity. It's all they can do to give the required treatment.

I have emailed Stella and asked her to name me this human biological female with a penis...in anticipation!

Let us know the reply please Birdie22. 😳

Callistemon21

Doodledog

I can’t imagine a hospital that doesn’t ‘welcome’ people of various sexualities. Who someone has sex with (or who they would like to have sex with) must only matter to a nurse or doctor treating them when their ailment is related in some way.

Precisely.

I don't think anyone has ever asked me, although I do have a first consultation in a couple of weeks time so I'll be prepared.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation

When I hear any politician endorsing "a woman can have a penis" whatever their political persuasion, it just makes my heart sink. They, who we vote to represent us, endorse a fallacy which is detrimental to women. Thank goodness for this u turn, not before time.

If someone is prepared to lie about something so easy to disprove, then how much easier will they lie about other things? Stella Creasey (amongst far too many) could tell the truth by saying that a transwoman can have a penis (because they are biological males).

Oh no, not Stella Creasy! I have always regarded her as one of the more sensible MPs in my neck of the woods.

Rosie51

If someone is prepared to lie about something so easy to disprove, then how much easier will they lie about other things? Stella Creasey (amongst far too many) could tell the truth by saying that a transwoman can have a penis (because they are biological males).

And that’s another issue. How can lying, or telling others to lie, or to accept or support or teach your lie be acceptable?

Doodledog

Callistemon21

Doodledog

I can’t imagine a hospital that doesn’t ‘welcome’ people of various sexualities. Who someone has sex with (or who they would like to have sex with) must only matter to a nurse or doctor treating them when their ailment is related in some way.

Precisely.

I don't think anyone has ever asked me, although I do have a first consultation in a couple of weeks time so I'll be prepared.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation

😁

I'll try not to embarrass myself (or him).

grumppa

Oh no, not Stella Creasy! I have always regarded her as one of the more sensible MPs in my neck of the woods.

How can anyone make a bald statement like that - a woman can have a penis - as if just by saying it, makes it true!

Is Creasy confusing sex with gender?

A transwoman can have a penis - a woman cannot.

Creasy must know that by stating that, she is also insisting that women have no right to their protected spaces.

What I want to know is why those like Creasy just cannot accept that transwomen - are transwomen. But, according to her, a transwoman is "an adult human female". Because, apparently, some women are born with a penis.

But that's not the same thing is it as a man deciding he's a woman.

Oh lawks, this is all driving me insane.

The chestfeeding thing has always seemed stupid to me. The unfortunate men who develop breast cancer aren't told they have chest cancer do they?

Deedaa

The chestfeeding thing has always seemed stupid to me. The unfortunate men who develop breast cancer aren't told they have chest cancer do they?

... that's a point.

In 18th and 19th century literature, men often had their chests referred to as a breast - especially where feelings were concerned. He walked along with a heavy feeling in his breast, etc.

They also have breast pockets in their suits.

If transwomen feed a baby - they are breast-feeding.

It's all so ridiculous. Some TW insist their penis is a 'girl dick' but won't own a breast.

... it's almost as if they are attempting to eradicate the very concept of a woman. They haven't got a biological vagina so their penis has to become a female appendage. They do have a breast - but it's not to be confused with a female breast, so it becomes a chest.

The logi defies my understanding.

If they'd just accept that they are transwomen and not women - but it appears some are insisting on defining a woman according to their own whim.

.. it's almost as if they are attempting to eradicate the very concept of a woman.
That is exactly what they are doing. The trans movement is deeply misogynistic and homophobic, but they’ve been rumbled now, thank goodness. The backpedaling will be good to see after all this time of being accused of exactly the things we were fighting. Maybe it was transference, or projection. Maybe it was simple disingenuousness. Who knows. I don’t care, so long as it stops.

Doodledog

*.. it's almost as if they are attempting to eradicate the very concept of a woman.*
That is exactly what they are doing. The trans movement is deeply misogynistic and homophobic, but they’ve been rumbled now, thank goodness. The backpedaling will be good to see after all this time of being accused of exactly the things we were fighting. Maybe it was transference, or projection. Maybe it was simple disingenuousness. Who knows. I don’t care, so long as it stops.

I'm assuming the homophobia stems from lesbians not finding transwomen attractive sexually because they are men, and are therefore accused of being 'transphobic'?

Obviously, I'm generalising here and guess that it's an individual thing. But in essence, lesbians are attracted to women because they are women. A man might identify as one but he will still have the body shape of a man, the muscles, Adam's apple, narrow hips, voice, etc, which I'm guessing are simply unattractive to a lesbian... which makes sense.

In fact they, lesbians, are a good barometer in highlighting the very characteristics that prove a man cannot become a woman simply by saying so.

Yes, that, but more that Stonewall/TRAs consider(s) same-sex attraction as transphobic- it should be ‘same gender attraction’ 🙄.

This from people who argue that ‘feelings’ are paramount (when it comes to ‘identity’ and it suits their case). They discount the feelings of those who know they are same-sex attracted, and in some cases even argue against same-sex marriage.

Lesbians are more at risk from this, as it is they who are preyed on by straight men wanting sex with them because they are women (they recognise sex when it suits them), but it’s not restricted to lesbians - gay men are targeted too. As always though, women are more at risk because (a) they are generally weaker than male-bodied people, and (b) even if transmen were predatory (arguably less likely as they were socialised as women) they are, like most females, generally weaker than men.

Dickens also the pherenomes and hormones of a man, both of which contribute to arousal. Smell is an important part of arousal.

I am absolutely straight. I respond sexually to male pherenomes and odour but not to the female equivalent. Lesbian women will find male pherenomes offputting, regardless of the gender of the person they are with. these pherenomes and hormones are an expression of the physical sex of a person and are immutable.