Brussels police ordered to attend a right wing conference attended by Braverman and Farage

maddyone Thu 18-Apr-24 00:38:20
Re the comment about free speech and the pro Palestine marches. Well clearly the protesters have had many months of free speech, which is fine except that some of the protesters have shouted antisemitic slogans, from the river to the sea and so on, and some have carried antisemitic placards featuring swastikas and Hitler and so on. These incidents are not breaches of the peace, though they very well could be, but they are hate speech which is an offence. Free speech is fine, hate speech is against the law and therefore not fine.

And this hate speech was permitted by the police

Anniebach

maddyone Thu 18-Apr-24 00:38:20
Re the comment about free speech and the pro Palestine marches. Well clearly the protesters have had many months of free speech, which is fine except that some of the protesters have shouted antisemitic slogans, from the river to the sea and so on, and some have carried antisemitic placards featuring swastikas and Hitler and so on. These incidents are not breaches of the peace, though they very well could be, but they are hate speech which is an offence. Free speech is fine, hate speech is against the law and therefore not fine.

And this hate speech was permitted by the police

Very well said. Totally agree.

Well who decides what is hate speech is deeply problematic obviously as has been recently shown. I am much more terrified about those who are authoritarian in regards to speech than those who say things I dont like.

Galaxy 👏👏👏 dittto

I agree with Galaxy I think we are facing some very illiberal stances on many issues from governments and corporations who would deem themselves left of centre.

Turning to the likes of Victor Orban how does he get away with flouting EU policy as to blocking any asylum seekers from Hungary?

We should not need our fishermen being stood up for Maybee70 if the EU was that wonderful! It really isnt and wasnt!

BevSec

We should not need our fishermen being stood up for Maybee70 if the EU was that wonderful! It really isnt and wasnt!

But it was his responsibility and he shirked it! He was paid to do it and he didn’t bother. Which is nothing to do with how good or bad the EU is. Imo

I see your point MayBee70 although I do not know the circumstances. I live in a fishing town and there were big notices all round the harbour following the vote to leave the EU saying thank you. It was so moving.

JudyBloom

This is a disgrace, Nigel Farage is NOT far right, they just want people to believe he is - as usual, if views don't fit the narrative you get banned - this is against Democracy and another attack on free speech. There is nothing to fear from Nigel, he believes in free speech and our country having it's own rules.

🤣🤣🤣

JudyBloom I absolutely agree with you. He wants what is best for this country.

What exactly is far right?
It is claimed by some Gransnetters that Orban is far right. I asked what makes him far right as I don’t know much about him, apart from his refusal to take immigrants (how does he get away with that in the EU?) I’ve been told to read the foreign media to enlighten myself. Not much of an answer really. Or get Hungarian neighbours! Not sure how I can arrange that!

If last year’s Nationwide Conservative conference is anything to go by, there was plenty in there which could be considered hate speech.

Hate speech is happening on our streets most weekends, filmed by the British media, and watched and listened to by the British police.

I support free speech.
I don’t support hate speech.

On Orban

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/24/viktor-orban-against-race-mixing-europe-hungary

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

maddyone

What exactly is far right?
It is claimed by some Gransnetters that Orban is far right. I asked what makes him far right as I don’t know much about him, apart from his refusal to take immigrants (how does he get away with that in the EU?) I’ve been told to read the foreign media to enlighten myself. Not much of an answer really. Or get Hungarian neighbours! Not sure how I can arrange that!

Far right politics generally come about as a result of a general dissatisfaction, or malaise at the way things are progressing.

So - far right groups outside of the mainstream political landscape are characterised by being very conservative, nationalistic and authoritarian, but more than that they tend to gain support by identifying other groups as being the cause of much of the problems. This is where you get anti-semitism, islamaphobia and white supremacy, and an intolerance of groups considered to be outside of accepted cultural norms, as dictated by the right wing.

So Orban is the leader of a right wing populist nationalist party that is anti-immigration and anti- LGBTQ rights. He is authoritarian and anti-liberal, rejecting the so called elites. However, and weirdly, Orban in his anti-elite policy has taken on many large corporations, by taxing them, and introducing controls that a left wing government would do, so I think in a way the label “national socialism” does not over egg the pudding when describing Orbán. I don’t mean in a hard Nazi way but in a softer phenomenon.

I agree with that Casdon. Nonetheless I do think the pro Palestine marches should be publicised. We need to know about big events such as these whether we are for or against them.

Thank you for the link Wyllow. It is much more helpful than being told to read foreign press or get Hungarian neighbours. I’m not sure that James next door, wants to move out

I could ask him I suppose 🫤

maddyone

I agree with that Casdon. Nonetheless I do think the pro Palestine marches should be publicised. We need to know about big events such as these whether we are for or against them.

Thank you for the link Wyllow. It is much more helpful than being told to read foreign press or get Hungarian neighbours. I’m not sure that James next door, wants to move out

Ouch! I wonder who that comment is aimed at!

Actually, I find reading foreign press enlightening.

The second "tip" was tongue in cheek because I do happen to have Hungarian neighbours.

Casdon

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

Farage is very good at using the media to get publicity for himself and people need to stop playing into his hands eg the boats on the Thames during the referendum in which Bob Geldorf got far worse publicity for highlighting Farages failings as an EU MP than Farage got for being exposed in such a way. Bit like dealing with a naughty child by ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good. Trump works in the same way.

MayBee70

Casdon

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

Farage is very good at using the media to get publicity for himself and people need to stop playing into his hands eg the boats on the Thames during the referendum in which Bob Geldorf got far worse publicity for highlighting Farages failings as an EU MP than Farage got for being exposed in such a way. Bit like dealing with a naughty child by ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good. Trump works in the same way.

Casdon isn't it the job of the media to report on whatever they deem interesting?

Sorry Casdon I dont have a problem with free speech

What I object to is media attention given to people on the margins of politics, they don't warrant it .....

but this is the epitome of shutting down free speech.

Free Speech for all not those some of us approve of.

MayBee70 you've listed many reasons why you don't care for NF, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with a state official using state apparatus to close down a perfectly legal conference.

Control of state depts
Repression of political opponents
Suspension of civil liberties
Not abiding by the rule of law

These are some of the characteristics of a dictatorship. Why is a democracy trying to behave in the same way?

Arn't the actions of this bureaucrat more frightening?

Namsnanny

MayBee70

Casdon

The issue for me isn’t the free speech, I don’t have any problem with that. What I really object to is the media attention given to events staged and attended by people on the margins of politics. Airtime fuels them, and they don’t warrant it.

Farage is very good at using the media to get publicity for himself and people need to stop playing into his hands eg the boats on the Thames during the referendum in which Bob Geldorf got far worse publicity for highlighting Farages failings as an EU MP than Farage got for being exposed in such a way. Bit like dealing with a naughty child by ignoring bad behaviour and praising the good. Trump works in the same way.

Casdon isn't it the job of the media to report on whatever they deem interesting?

Sorry Casdon I dont have a problem with free speech

What I object to is media attention given to people on the margins of politics, they don't warrant it .....

but this is the epitome of shutting down free speech.

Free Speech for all not those some of us approve of.

MayBee70 you've listed many reasons why you don't care for NF, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with a state official using state apparatus to close down a perfectly legal conference.

Control of state depts
Repression of political opponents
Suspension of civil liberties
Not abiding by the rule of law

These are some of the characteristics of a dictatorship. Why is a democracy trying to behave in the same way?

Arn't the actions of this bureaucrat more frightening?

More scared of people using racism and xenophobia to garner support. Anyway, I just said I think they should have just ignored him instead of giving him more publicity. The rise of extreme right wing politics in Europe is imo very worrying.

BevSec

I see your point MayBee70 although I do not know the circumstances. I live in a fishing town and there were big notices all round the harbour following the vote to leave the EU saying thank you. It was so moving.

However, many fisherman and farmers are now struggling!

Cossy

BevSec

I see your point MayBee70 although I do not know the circumstances. I live in a fishing town and there were big notices all round the harbour following the vote to leave the EU saying thank you. It was so moving.

However, many fisherman and farmers are now struggling!

As are the farmers who had huge placards in their fields telling people to vote leave, even though I believe the NUF advised them to remain. I’d like to know how things have improved for fishermen now we’ve left the EU.

Namsnammy said

‘Casdon isn't it the job of the media to report on whatever they deem interesting?

Sorry Casdon I dont have a problem with free speech

What I object to is media attention given to people on the margins of politics, they don't warrant it .....

but this is the epitome of shutting down free speech.’

The media are pushing their owners agendas Namsnammy. Free speech should not provide media fodder which distorts the lens through which the public see what is happening in their country or the world, it’s that which I object to.

Yes I object to the partisan use of the media too.

Also the use of money or government power to interfere with news coverage.

But its happening all the time, Morning Star for example isn't going to waste time printing middle ground political successes is it?

Nevertheless, it isn't cancelled because some one objects.

Free speech is actually very hard to stomach.