Where have we gone wrong....

I remember thanking the Lord that we were living in Australia by the time that woman was elected.She was very capable but used her brain to destroy people’s lives, no compassion whatsoever.

MaizieD

I'm afraid that I very much think Thatcher and her [politics are to blame.

Old people have complained about the licentiousness and irresponsibility of the 'younger generation' throughout recorded history, so I don't think that the emergence of 'the teenager' in the 1950s and 60s was such a significant phenomenon.

Thatcher destroyed the post war consensus on the welfare state and moves towards economic equality. Destroying our manufacturing base was not a far seeing move to combat climate change, it was a device to destroy union power. She had little interest in any strategy to replace the industries she destroyed, being confident that 'the market' would do the job.

She was intent on destroying the welfare state, pouring scorn on 'the nanny state', talking up individual enterprise and self reliance and bent on privatising as much of our nationalised industry and services as she possibly could.

While the Blair and Brown governments were a welcome relief they followed much the same economic dogma, belief in private enterprise and the efficiency of 'the markets', but tempered with investment in public services, such as the NHS and education. Once they were out of the way the tories continued the Thatcher mission with massive cutbacks to public services and tight control of local authorities and the unions.

It may be that some people think the state the UK is in now is absolutely fine, but I think that abandoning the social welfare of the population and allowing the privatised industries to prioritise profit and shareholder dividends over providing an effective service has led to many of the problems we are having now; both socially and economically.

Spot on...! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

It's too easy to blame Thatcher and her governments, but I think she broke the generally accepted social contract between the government and the people. Before that there was a general acceptance of one nation governance. Now there is such a lot of cynicism which I consider destructive.

Curlywhirly

Dinahmo my sentiments too; there was a shortage of people to work in transport, hospitals, social care etc. Where would we have been without mass immigration during the 60s?

The Windrush generation helped to rebuild Britain and many of those new arrivals were war veterans. They were nonetheless denied even the basics of human dignity. Even the Church refused them entry to worship (the vast majority of them were devout Christians) and they were turned away at the church doors.

The Sikh community alone lost over 200,000 soldiers fighting for the allies during both world wars.

The Somalis were tremendously proud allies of Britain and their Camel Corps was heroic and legendary. However, their treatment by the British government was shameful.

As for the poster who said that most people used to abide by the teachings of the church. How far back are we going? Did the poster in question live in rural Ireland a century ago per chance?

It's worth noting that many children and adults in the appalling slums of pre first world war Britain had "never heard of paradise" such was their abandonment and deprivation. Their sole worth being to line the pockets of the industrialists and the two per cent of wealth that controlled the nation.

I dimly recall the posts that were deleted; when I read them I couldn't help thinking that we should reflect on the effects of the British Empire that we are feeling, and so many people are disliking, to this very day.

We took over so many countries, we ruled them directly, or indirectly through client rulers who complied with our laws and elite structures. We plundered their resources and drew their wealth into Britain. We treated their native populations as inferiors who existed to serve our wealth acquisition.

Or we sought to control them as a pawn in international relations. Our troubled association with Afghanistan stems from the mid 19C attempt to use Afghanistan as a defence against feared assault on our Indian 'possessions' by Russia.

But, above all, we told them they were British. That Britain was the 'mother country' of which they were citizens. We used that trope to enlist them in our armies. Dinahmo talks of WW2, but in WW1 we had West Indians and Indians fighting for Britain (and Australians and Canadians, but no-one worries about that because they're really 'just like us').

Then, when these 'British' subjects came to claim our protection (think Ugandan Asians) or when asked to fill our labour gaps (think Windrush), we treat them as second class beings and eventually repudiate them by taking away what they thought was their automatic right, as British citizens, to come to Britain to live and work.

I think we have to live with this and accommodate it. Blaming them for the problems Britain brought upon itself is unfair and shortsighted. We can't make the consequences of our Imperial past just vanish.

I think BL’s point, Grey, with which I agree, is that if one reports a post one should say they have done so.

Dinahmo my sentiments too; there was a shortage of people to work in transport, hospitals, social care etc. Where would we have been without mass immigration during the 60s?

Biglouis here you are deriding standards of behaviour and self indulgence yet you see those who are not prepared to stand by and take efforts to prevent vile and offensive behaviour as "snitches". Anti social behaviour should not be tolerated. I thought that was your point.

Katie59

Some SKI parents for sure but our generation are just as responsible as our children’s generation are.

You only have to compare the fairly gentle debate and mostly polite language on Gransnet with the far more robust, rude, combative language on Mumsnet. Those are the product of our generation, we raised them to be like that!.

I admit to bringing up my DD to be more assertive and speak up for themselves than my generation was. I'm not quite a baby boomer, so am apparently one of the Silent Generation 😃although DH and I have always been able to make our point but, I hope, politely and without rudeness, which is what I taught my DC.

I would never report a post - I would rather it remain so people can see for themselves the bigotry/prejudice/unpleasantness that is sometimes quoted and have the opportunity to question it.

Those of you who are blaming immigration are perhaps forgetting the numbers immigrants that work in our hospitals and other services, such as transport.

The Windrush people were encouraged to come to the UK and believed that they would get good jobs etc. As we know many people were unwelcoming, with the signs on the front doors of boarding houses "no blacks, no Irish, no dogs"

Furthermore many West Indians enlisted in WW2. By the end of the war there were 17,500 male and female volunteers from the West Indies in the RAF alone.

True, BL. If I report a post I say I have done so. I think we should all have the courage of our convictions.

Just a small anecdote from when our five were younger, I can remember numerous times the conversation of so and so’s parents let them do this that and the other and buys them what ever they want our stock answer was always I will just ring them to check the argument vanished into the ether.

BigLouis pointed to the problems starting with mass immigration. I agreed with her views. However one must not say that so the posts were deleted. Neither of us used forbidden words. We didn’t use hate speech. However what is the point of holding a view and being unable to put it forward in debate, even using polite language? No wonder we are where we are

I have never reported a post either here or on mumsnet although some have made me extremely angry. At least I can congratulate myself on not being a snitch who is afraid to engage in debate.

What is wrong for taking personal responsibility for yourself and your children until they come of age?

Blaming Eastenders and X Factor is a cop out.

I don’t do TikTok, but I have an idea of some of the stuff that it puts out from various other sources. Apparently it has many ‘influencers’ and they make a great deal of money from this role. One, maybe more, was on Celebrity Big Brother earlier this year. I do think that whatever they do, their role is unhelpful to the ordinary young person in the street. A bit like the X Factor was re many young people wanting nothing more in life than to be famous. I’m glad my children were a bit too old to be caught up in either of these phenomena and worked hard and have achieved proper careers.

Sorry wrong person. Apologies.

Katie59

GG13 it’s not us as individuals it’s the society that we created where drama dis respectand conflict was an everyday feature with no consequences on mainstream TV, East Enders was the first followed by many other soaps where conflict was normalized, unsurprisingly children followed those lifestyle choices because they seemed exciting.
I didn’t allow mine to watch those programmes I’m sure many others didn’t - many did. Now our GC now have to cope with even more violence, porn, online intimidation it’s hardly surprising that mental health is so poor.

Who is the "we". I for one certainly do not agree with the trash that certain channels throw out. It is the young immature influences on tik tok,the youth of today's Bible, the pouty lips, the lack of personal morality.it is the youth and the degenerate channel producers that churn out this crap. Not the ordinary people in the street.

GG13 it’s not us as individuals it’s the society that we created where drama dis respectand conflict was an everyday feature with no consequences on mainstream TV, East Enders was the first followed by many other soaps where conflict was normalized, unsurprisingly children followed those lifestyle choices because they seemed exciting.
I didn’t allow mine to watch those programmes I’m sure many others didn’t - many did. Now our GC now have to cope with even more violence, porn, online intimidation it’s hardly surprising that mental health is so poor.

^"I would there were no age between ten and twenty three, or that youth would sleep out the rest; for there's nothing in between but getting wenches with child, wronging the ancientry, stealing and fighting.
*The Winter's Tale' Shakespeare.*^

There's nothing new about wayward youngsters.

Sharing is caring is something I’ve heard so often from my younger grandchildren. They’re continuing their families traditions of being raised to reflect others. My impression of their primary schools culture is positive.

Katie59 I do not think you can blame the ills of the U.K. entirely on the so called baby boomers

In this age of 24 hour rolling news, instagram, X, Snapchat etc., there is this need in some to overshare every aspect of their lives. Some of this sharing creates envy in others, in as much as they see posts and want what they perceive others have

There seems to be a collective hive mind, nurtured by these internet sites, that’s without the so called dark web.

I was raised to respect my elders, as were my children and my grandchildren are being raised to respect their elders, teachers and others. Even the youngest (4 years olds) are fully aware when anyone is being rude, unfair or unjust. In fact all the GC have taken in the saying sharing is caring

Delila

This thread is bringing out some very unpleasant attitudes and makes extremely uncomfortable reading. Some comments are definitely racist.

Exactly what I was thinking. Some dreadful comments.

Some SKI parents for sure but our generation are just as responsible as our children’s generation are.

You only have to compare the fairly gentle debate and mostly polite language on Gransnet with the far more robust, rude, combative language on Mumsnet. Those are the product of our generation, we raised them to be like that!.

With care costs increasingly coming into the equation, there’s no guarantee of being able to leave an inheritance anyway.🤷‍♀️

I would guess most of us help our ACs as much as possible, but are aware of the need to financially protect ourselves as well.

Inheritance is a gift, not a right.🙂