Namsnanny
But we can look at it another way Doodledog Wheniwasyourage.
If we consider that people who are captured by a cult cannot help themselves, and are most unlikely accept challenges to their belief system. Then questioning all that they say in open discussion is very beneficial to those on the margins.
Those who are vulnerable or know someone who is vulnerable can and will see the arguments for and against put in clear language.
They will observe the different ways each chose to 'defend' their position.
Which is why what you and others who dont give up do on threads here is valuable.
For my self I stick to the basics.
Facts are facts.
No shutting down free speach
No Trans ideology in schools
No barbaric surgery on children
No men in womens spaces
I agree, Namsnanny, and part of the reason I keep repeating myself on these threads is that I am aware that there are people reading who don't post. I think this is one of those topics where people often start off thinking that trans rights are an extension of gay rights and a general 'live and let live' outlook. I know I felt like that when I first met a transwoman many years ago, and where individual transpeople are concerned I still do.
It takes an incident or particular realisation (often called 'being peaked') to make people stop and think 'Hang on a minute - this is not really about individual people just wanting to live their lives. It's about forcing people to accept and endorse views they may not hold, and removing rights from women that took years to acquire'. For me, this realisation happened in a number of ways, which I will relate in no particular order.
Firstly when I posted on here asking about young people being given hormones, binders and so on when they said they felt they were 'in the wrong body', and why we couldn't broaden the parameters of gender stereotypes so that there were no 'boys' and 'girls' ways of being? It was a straight question with no agenda, on a seemingly reasonable thread. I was a new poster, and taken aback when I was rounded on and told in no uncertain terms that this was prejudiced, that I needed to 'educate myself' and that I was speaking to seasoned feminists who knew what they were talking about. I did 'educate myself' and discovered that there was no answer to my original question, which is why no attempt was made to address it on the thread.
Secondly, a lesbian friend of mine went on a dating site and met up with a transwoman posing as a lesbian. My friend was not interested in going further, as she is not interested in sex with male bodies, which, obviously, is not unusual for lesbians. She was shaken when the transwoman turned nasty, she was called a TERF, and the transwoman became threatening.
Thirdly, a conversation about males in women's toilets reminded me of years ago, when I was a student, and a friend of mine was sexually assaulted in the ladies' loo. A man had gone in there, obviously intending to find a victim. Fortunately one of the bar staff had seen him disappear into the corridor where the Ladies' was, and when he didn't come back the alarm was raised, just in time to save my friend from being raped. I realised that if that happened now, it would be far less likely that someone would react, as men just have to say they are women to be allowed in there legitimately. If they dress as a woman it is highly unlikely that they would be questioned (particularly in a student bar) and even if they didn't it would be a brave barman who would risk his job by 'misgendering'.
Finally, a colleague of mine was asked to declare pronouns on emails and Zoom/Teams screens, which were used a lot during lockdown. I don't want to go into a lot of detail, as it is not my story to tell, but this person was known by one identity at home (not in the UK) and another at work, and did not want the discrepancy to be discovered by family, which could very easily have happened.
I am not a TERF. I am not phobic. I have never intentionally discriminated against anyone. I am neither racist nor homophobic, although I have been accused of both on here. I am not a Nazi, although I have been accused of that, too, and have seen others similarly accused for not bowing to the trans allies' diktats. I do not want to make anyone's life more difficult than it already is. Those insults are unwarranted, and IMO show the paucity of logic or reason in the arguments in favour of self-ID. I think we all get 'peaked' at different times and in different ways, but if someone reads threads on here and something resonates it is worth the frustration of going round in circles so much.
