Yesterday I saw a film of the women and their children in a camp in Syria. Apart from two British women there were Canadians, Germans and an Australian woman. It seemed many were too scared to show their faces.
The film horrified me. Their little children are innocent. They have nothing. Then today in The Spectator I read an article which claimed we had no right constitutionally to strip Ms Begum of her citizenship and looking at a camp full of non Syrians living in appalling conditions I have changed my mind. These women all made a dreadful mistake but they are human and if an old traditionalist like William Rees Mog can speak up on Ms Begum’s plight, I realised I have felt uncomfortable purely as a woman that we should bring her home and deal with her. Do any other Grans feel uneasy on behalf of these women? Can she never be forgiven?
Callistemon
The authorities failed to protect the public; we are too naïve
Yes and the naivety of some on this thread is plain to see. Up thread one poster cried “she was just a little girl”. A sick, twisted girl that claimed it didn’t bother her when she saw a dead fighter’s head in a bin.
Germanshepherdsmum
*Sue*, I have already mentioned the Tower Bridge killer who underwent supposedly successful rehabilitation. What did he do as soon as he got out?
He was allowed to go off on a train journey unsupervised because we are too lax in this country
The authorities failed to protect the public; we are too naïve.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/10/cambridge-university-scraps-prisoners-programme-2019-fishmonger-hall-terror-attack#:~:text=Jack%20Merritt%2C%2025%2C%20who%20was,fifth%20anniversary%20of%20the%20scheme.
ninamoore
Were we not 15 years old ourselves once; did we not make the wrong choices? She was obviously groomed and is in need of support and another chance.
Most 15 year olds are having a sneaky smoke or drink not sewing suicide bombers into their vests and watching beheadings (which didn't faze her-her words). How do you know she was groomed? The undisclosed information on this case has been enough for the Home Secretary to revoke her British citizenship and for judges to repeatedly vote unanimously on upholding his decision. Good enough for me.
FranP
JaneJudge
She was a child when she was groomed. It's abuse.
If you read the case - she went, she married an Islamist not once but twice. If they had still been alive, she would not have looked back.
Her crime was using social media to lie to and recruit other vulnerable young women, enticing them to do the same, over a period of years. She is an influencer - if she was an Imam we would not even think about letting her into the country.
You are confusing Shameena Begun and Shamina Begum, they are two different girls. The first was at school with the second and went to Syria before Shamina who she then persuaded with two friends to go to Syria. Shamina married once and her husband is still alive as far as I know.
Please post evidence from a reliable source if you think my post is incorrect, but this is correct as far as I am aware.
which employer would employ her? where would she live? would she be reliant on benefits ? it is not so simple as bringing her back to the UK
No she definitely should not be allowed back.
We all know the story.
She knew what she was doing and now regrets it.
Or does she?
She is where she should be and hopefully in time she wil be tried by the Governemtn of Syria and EXECUTED as a Terrorist. ISIS tried to take over Syria and Iraq. They lost and now the losers wil have to pay the penalty for their crimes and that INcludes Begum.
It is not my understanding that Shamima Begum realised her mistake soon after. She became an enforcer of Isis rules, was happy that innocent aid workers were gruesomely murdered and was a grown woman who had had two Isis husbands when she said that the Manchester Arena killings of children were justified. She was radicalised to an extent which make her a danger if she returns.
Don’t forget Usman Khan, a ‘rehabilitated’ Isis terrorist, considered safe enough for release on probation, who killed two Cambridge University students in cold blood.
Sue, I have already mentioned the Tower Bridge killer who underwent supposedly successful rehabilitation. What did he do as soon as he got out?
She is our "mess" and we should take her back.
Holland took back her husband because he was Dutch but Holland did not recognise the marriage therefore felt under no obligation to take her.
Well said sandelf 👏👏 she should never be allowed back to this country. As my mother used to say to me as a teenager “you made your bed now lie in it”
Heck I definitely wasn’t capable of making any life changing decisions at age 15 and would hate to be brought to account due some of the very stupid things I did in my teens. Yes she was stupid and naive but … I don’t believe in leaving anyone without nationality and I do believe in the concepts of forgiveness and rehabilitation, so it’s my opinion that she should be brought back to the UK and stand trial here. And then she can begin a well supervised road to rehabilitation.
Dillonsgranma
Ive no time for the woman. She let three of her children die and doesn’t turn a hair about it. She admitted she had watched beheadings and stated it was the correct punishment. No thank you. We don’t need people like her in gb There are enough radicals here already!
The Court made its decision based on information we don’t have . I accept the decision
I don’t accept the SB ‘let three of her children die’. The infants died of disease. To say she ‘doesn’t turn a hair about it’ suggests you know her well. You don’t. Trauma affects people in various ways. Her flat emotional presentation is one often seen in traumatised people
sandelf
She knew what ISIS believe and their aims. She was not 'trafficed' or forced. She knew she would be married to a 'fighter'. I have not heard her repudiate any of this. She is sad because it went wrong. Bangladesh refuse to make her a citizen as they do not want ISIS supporters. - Why should this country provide her with bed and board for the rest of her life? How would you view this if it were a man in this situation?
Well said sandelf.
ReadyMeals
I have to say the punishment seems out of proportion. It's not like she was herself killing people, she was just there as a wife to support the man's comfort. And for goodness sake she was just 15 and realised her mistake not long after.
I think there is a lot we don’t know, she actively recruited other girls and possibly committed more crimes, if it was just a case of naivety I think she would be back in the UK by now.
I have to say the punishment seems out of proportion. It's not like she was herself killing people, she was just there as a wife to support the man's comfort. And for goodness sake she was just 15 and realised her mistake not long after.
Her citizenship has been taken awayShe is married so why has she not gone with her husband to Holland. Surely if you are married you go where he goes especially as she has no children.
There’s something called remorse .. and not remorse for the benefit of cameras . She has never garnered much sympathy because she does not seem to show any genuine remorse at all . However she is British and there must be Avery good reason not having her back ..
I would be concerned that she may be hiding her real allegiances to get her back in. I dont believe she was groomed as such, her and her friends were caught up in the excitement of it all and made their choices.
JaneJudge
She was a child when she was groomed. It's abuse.
If you read the case - she went, she married an Islamist not once but twice. If they had still been alive, she would not have looked back.
Her crime was using social media to lie to and recruit other vulnerable young women, enticing them to do the same, over a period of years. She is an influencer - if she was an Imam we would not even think about letting her into the country.
She was let down by a system which failed to identify girls who might be targeted and recruited by Isis. Her journey was facilitated by a man working as an undercover agent for the Canadian intelligence agency.
The fact is that Canadian intelligence services knew about people being recruited by Isis. Perhaps the confidential information the foreign office is protecting and doesn't want revealed is nothing to do with public safety now but is to do with the network which recruited and supplied fighters and wives to Isis.
Ive no time for the woman. She let three of her children die and doesn’t turn a hair about it. She admitted she had watched beheadings and stated it was the correct punishment. No thank you. We don’t need people like her in gb There are enough radicals here already!
sandelf
She knew what ISIS believe and their aims. She was not 'trafficed' or forced. She knew she would be married to a 'fighter'. I have not heard her repudiate any of this. She is sad because it went wrong. Bangladesh refuse to make her a citizen as they do not want ISIS supporters. - Why should this country provide her with bed and board for the rest of her life? How would you view this if it were a man in this situation?
If he'd been a 15 year old boy, trafficked for sexual purposes I would expect him to be brought back to the UK. If he were an adult who joined up to fight I'd want him back in the UK under lock and key for the rest of his life because he'd be a danger to the UK left in Syria.
sandelf
She knew what ISIS believe and their aims. She was not 'trafficed' or forced. She knew she would be married to a 'fighter'. I have not heard her repudiate any of this. She is sad because it went wrong. Bangladesh refuse to make her a citizen as they do not want ISIS supporters. - Why should this country provide her with bed and board for the rest of her life? How would you view this if it were a man in this situation?
👏👏
She knew what ISIS believe and their aims. She was not 'trafficed' or forced. She knew she would be married to a 'fighter'. I have not heard her repudiate any of this. She is sad because it went wrong. Bangladesh refuse to make her a citizen as they do not want ISIS supporters. - Why should this country provide her with bed and board for the rest of her life? How would you view this if it were a man in this situation?
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