Azar Ali

I don't see any accusation. I'm pretty sure everybody is worried and upset about whats happening.

My post was not an accusation. I asked a simple question with regard to Netanyahu's actions in Gaza being justifiable or acceptable as collateral damage. If you don't think it's justifiable or acceptable collateral damage, just say so.

Of course it's not justifiable. Is that MP wrong though?

I reported foxie48's post as it makes untrue accusations against other posters.

Whether or not it remains is up to GNHQ but it is a shocking accusation to make against posters who have always condemned the deaths of innocent people and never, ever claimed anything if this is justified.

Best not to engage, GrannyGravy13.

foxie48 where have I or any other poster on here said that the loss of life is justifiable ?

GrannyGravy13

Just because I recognise that the blame for this current situation lays firmly at the feet of Hamas, does not mean that I am not appalled at the loss of life in Palestine.

Do you think it is justifiable? Are these dead women and children acceptable collateral damage in Netanyahu's attempt to rid the world of Hamas in order to protect Israeli citizens? Is it even possible to eliminate a vile ideology by bombing it or is Netanyahu just acting as a recruiting agent for Hamas?

I haven't seen anyone, on any of the threads about Gaza, support Hamas. As far as I am aware everyone condemns their actions on 7/10. What we have been discussing is Netanyahu's response and the actions of the IDF in Gaza. TBH I would expect everyone to be appalled by the loss of life in Palestine, I take it as a given but there's a difference in being "appalled" and believing it is "justifiable.

GrannyGravy13

Just because I recognise that the blame for this current situation lays firmly at the feet of Hamas, does not mean that I am not appalled at the loss of life in Palestine.

Yes, it is not either/or and I resent the implication that we do not care. It is a horrific situation for all those affected.
I have never said anything other than that.

It is also frightening to think that other countries around Israel are harbouring Hamas leaders and the whole situation could escalate dramatically, becoming more widespread.
Both sides seem to be intransigent.

What I am really worried about is that Netanyahu simply isn’t listening to the world.

He has no intention of withdrawing from Gaza after hostilities cease (if they ever do) - Israel will become am occupying force suppressing the Palestinians.

How can they be stopped?

The only way is sanctions and refusal to sell Israel arms -

What a mess.

Parsley3

BBC News - They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

Is this proof?

Thanks for posting this . If it isn't proof it is at the very least grounds for discussion about what went on.
The remarks might have been crass but whilst there is evidence like this, from young women who gave their lives, speaking out should not be an offence. It might have been deliberate, it might have been a complete screw up, but something enabled Hamas to get through and for some reason these women were ignored. If no one can ask why without being accused of antisemitism what value does that put on their lives?

Just because I recognise that the blame for this current situation lays firmly at the feet of Hamas, does not mean that I am not appalled at the loss of life in Palestine.

So do we all.

I still say the remark was crass.

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

Blinken "Israelis were dehumanized in the most horrific way on October 7," he told a news conference in Tel Aviv. "The hostages have been dehumanised every day since. But that cannot be a license to dehumanise others."

I totally agree with Blinken and this is why I (and I am not alone) completely abhor what is happening in Gaza. Totally innocent people are losing their lives, their homes and their futures because of Netanyahu's obsession to stay in power. Thank goodness the US and our own govt have started to back away from supporting this crazy man. This is not about bringing hostages home, it's about keeping Netanyahu out of prison.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

As they sit in safety in other countries, watching their people being slaughtered and refusing to release hostages.
Does that suit their agenda?

In my opinion Callistemon21: it 100% suits their agenda.

This isn't about supporting a favourite football team. It's about wading through the reams of reports and trying to sort out facts from all the propaganda on both sides, including "supporters" in various foreign governments justifying their own actions.

growstuff exactly.

People are being killed and maimed, orphaned and destitute, starved and tortured.

So I feel we must be absolutely scrupulous as far as possible in our presentation of facts.

So - the evidence we have so far concerning the hostages is this -

The largest amount of freed hostages were as a result of negotiations between Qatar, Egypt, hamas and Israel.

Since then Israel has freed 3 hostages at the expense of thousands upon thousands of lives, as well as managing to “accidentally kill” a number of other hostages being held captive.

Hamas have said that they are willing to negotiate further on the release of hostages, but Netanyahu has turned this down to the horror of the hostages families, who protested in the Knesset.

I understand why you used that analogy, growstuff. I can't see see how full support for either side is possible when each is engaged in unspeakable actions. I just want it to stop.

It's the way you always try to belittle the opinions of others, growstuff.

Callistemon21

How crass.

Really? I'm afraid that's genuinely how I think some people see the situation.

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine.

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

I'm extremely bothered, which increases my sympathy for the Palestinians bearing the brunt of it all, knowing there's nothing they can do.

How crass.

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

As they sit in safety in other countries, watching their people being slaughtered and refusing to release hostages.
Does that suit their agenda?

In my opinion Callistemon21: it 100% suits their agenda.

This isn't about supporting a favourite football team. It's about wading through the reams of reports and trying to sort out facts from all the propaganda on both sides, including "supporters" in various foreign governments justifying their own actions.

Anniebach

The lack of action spoken of here is the government of Israel
allowing the massacre of Israeli citizens

Agreed. And?

There is a possibility that Mossad/the IDF/the Israeli government was told, but mistakenly believed the defences were strong enough.

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

As they sit in safety in other countries, watching their people being slaughtered and refusing to release hostages.
Does that suit their agenda?

In my opinion Callistemon21: it 100% suits their agenda.

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

As they sit in safety in other countries, watching their people being slaughtered and refusing to release hostages.
Does that suit their agenda?

Dreadfully sad,heartbreaking for people affected. Surely its not an either/ or situation?
I can't look at images or think about it.

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

Anniebach

The lack of action spoken of here is the government of Israel
allowing the massacre of Israeli citizens

It’s a ludicrous and awful accusation isn’t it? And yes, an anti-semitic one.