Aid for Gaza

Hamas were the governing body in Gaza and they provoked a war by their barbaric actions.It’s a war that they probably wished they hadn’t started, but it’s too late now.
Tragic incidents happen in times of war, in all wars sadly.

Japan -a sophisticated country and one not at war - took days if not over a week to confirm the number of dead after their recent earthquake. Yet Hamas can produce instantaneous casualty figures in Gaza. Remarkable.

Urmstongran

^ The reason for the poverty, the lack of industrial development, the lack of agricultural development is directly related to Israel's control of utilities and equipment entering Gaza and goods leaving^

Nope, not buying that Glorianny as long as Hamas can build MILES of underground tunnels. Diggers, electricity etc. they haven’t been built out of fresh air have they? Supplies (and aid) seconded by Hamas for their own nefarious purposes.

Sorry it isn't my assessment
The way water and electricity enter Gaza has always been controlled by Israel. In November Human Rights Watch issued a warning about the consequences of Israel completely shutting down the supplies.
If they were able to do this why would you question their control of these utilities. It is well documented.
www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/16/israeli-authorities-cutting-water-leading-public-health-crisis-gaza#:~:text=After%20more%20than%20a%20month,health%20experts%20of%20an%20imminent

You appear to be under some sort of delusion about the real objectives of Israel as regards Gaza. Why do you think they bombed it into complete destruction in 2008? And restricted development? They do not want to see a successful and economically independent Gaza.
Especially now oil is being drilled for off the coast and BP are signing contracts. It's a whole new factor
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/11/british-museum-pro-palestinian-protest-bp-oil-gaza-coast/#:~:text=Pro%2DPalestinian%20protesters%20have%20staged,are%20covered%20in%20Palestinian%20blood%E2%80%9D.

What no one seems to understand is that it is all about proportionality.

No proportion is being used by Israel - the government is almost certainly guilty of war crimes as a result.

That is not a government I would wish to support, nor I suspect do the majority of Israel’s population, no does the rest of the world.

Whitewavemark2

What no one seems to understand is that it is all about proportionality.

No proportion is being used by Israel - the government is almost certainly guilty of war crimes as a result.

That is not a government I would wish to support, nor I suspect do the majority of Israel’s population, no does the rest of the world.

Absolutely right

Proportionality is the choice of the victim. The heinous behaviour of Hamas on Oct 8th seems to have been forgotten 😥

If Hamas gave up their hostages proportionality wouldn’t need to come into the equation. But Hamas choose to ignore this fact. They will fight to their last civilian.

Urmstongran

If Hamas gave up their hostages proportionality wouldn’t need to come into the equation. But Hamas choose to ignore this fact. They will fight to their last civilian.

There is little fighting. This is the bombing of schools, hospitals and homes, the killing of innocent women and children.
Killed: at least 28,340 people, including more than:
12,150 children
8,300 women
Injured: more than 67,984, including at least:
8,663 children
6,327 women
Missing: more than 7,000

Nothing can justify this slaughter.

Which illustrates my point (which you ignored).
Hamas - return the hostages. Now.

petra

Proportionality is the choice of the victim. The heinous behaviour of Hamas on Oct 8th seems to have been forgotten 😥

Absolutely not! Of course what they did will never be forgotten, but that doesn’t stop the world from holding a state to the rule of law.

Urmstongran

Which illustrates my point (which you ignored).
Hamas - return the hostages. Now.

Hamas offered to return the hostages in return for a ceasefire-Israel refused.
At the first set of negotiations Hamas wanted to move from the female hostages and discuss older people. Israel refused and walked away.
Why?
Because this isn't about the hostages, it is about bringing Gaza to its knees again, just like in 2008. Israel doesn't want a successful free Gaza,especially now they are finding oil in Gaza waters, which of course Israel conttrols.

If HAMAS is given a ceasefire in exchange for some hostages it gives them time to regroup and they have said that they will commit further atrocities therefore they cannot be trusted.

Granatow yes indeed but Glorianny isn’t interested in any view point that doesn’t suit her narrative

The Israelis wanted the women out first rather than the older people or men as they knew that hamas can’t be trusted anywhere near a woman or girl.

Hamas are brutal swine, why anyone, let alone a woman can bring themselves to defend them is beyond reason.

Hamas cannot honestly be defended

Of course it can’t Annie, but we can bet someone will say the Israelis created Hamas

The whole situation is just bloody awful and nothing other than a complete ceasefire will resolve. How many more innocents, on both sides, need to die before this point hits home with both sides!

Oreo

The Israelis wanted the women out first rather than the older people or men as they knew that hamas can’t be trusted anywhere near a woman or girl.

But Israel has women soldiers. One of the unwritten rules of combat is that civilians are released first. Hamas said the women they still held were soldiers and that they wished to release old and infirm civilians first.
If women become combatants should they expect special treatment?

No matter how many Palestinians are killed Hamas will not be destroyed, You cannot kill ideas. If you were a young Palestinian now, watching as your friends, family were killed and maimed would you be wanting peace with Israel? Or would you be biding your time waiting for a chance to join Hamas. If not now in a few months or years time.
This whole concept that you can kill terrorism by mass slaughter (whatever means you use ) is simply untrue.

Can Hamas be believed ?

Your disdain and disregard for women who don’t fit your world view is hard to take. So because women are in the military it doesn’t matter if their risk is higher

Iam64

Your disdain and disregard for women who don’t fit your world view is hard to take. So because women are in the military it doesn’t matter if their risk is higher

No disdain for women. Simply a belief in equality. If women soldiers are combatants why should they be preferred over civilians? Particularly older and less able civilians. Who is more likely to die from an injury or to succumb to starvation or thirst, a healthy young woman or an elderly man?

If women become combatants should they expect special treatment?

Fewer than 4% of Israeli women soldiers are in combatant positions.

It does sound as though you’re dismissing the rights of military personnel to be treated properly - we all know women are at greater risk, especially military women