So pleased to see hostages being released.

About 500 Palestinians have been killed by settlers in the West Bank in 2023, often supported by the IDF, often with guns supplied by the government. The Israeli govt arrests and detains 1,000s of Palestinians without charge. These are facts not propaganda, well know outside Israel. Anyone living in Israel who is unaware of this, needs to ask themself, why?

I’m pleased someone who lives in Israel is posting. Thank you Philippa
for posting about what you are seeing and observing in your country.

The reasons I am sure:
- I live here and personally know MANY people directly involved who report on what they see
- The Israeli press is radically free and mostly quite against Netanyahu so they report all and everything that is negative in the Israeli actions - absolutely no restrictions (except many sensitive time bound military information)
- When Israel makes mistakes - they immediately own up to them very transparently

I am very sorry Philippa, but many Jewish friends, from Israel, disagree about the free Press and what is being reported about the actions of the IDF.

Many have compared what is being reported to the population to what is being told to Russian citizens about the war in Ukraine.

Any Palestinian can be arrested, anywhere, in the middle of the night, in front of their children, and taken away without charge or redress, humiliated, tortured, and often never heard of again- some just shot in the street, just for being 'men'- including children.

The Israeli Press is only free in vague principle. In reality, and even more so currently during this 'war' even more so. Most of the por Netanyahu propaganda happens currently on social media in one form of another.

The Israeli government generally respects freedom of the press, which is protected by the Basic Laws of Israel and independent judiciary.[4] Hate speech, and publishing praise of violence or issues of national security is prohibited.[4] While Israeli journalists operate with little restriction, the government has placed more restrictions on Palestinian journalists working in the region, as Reporters Without Borders alleges that the authorities entered Palestinian offices and homes looking for "illegal material".

Some have argued that freedom of press is restricted for Palestinians.[6] The media does carry criticism of government policy.[4]

Publication of a newspaper in Israel is illegal without a permit from the government, which continues to implement the Press Ordinance enacted by the Mandatory Government in 1933.[7] Permits can be refused for a variety of reasons, including that the proprietor is less than 25 years old or has a criminal record or insufficient education.[7][8]

An investigation by Haaretz early in 2016 revealed that in the preceding decade at least 62 out of more than 500 permit applications had been rejected.[7] Other regulations, including the 1945 Defence (Emergency) Regulations, can also be used to regulate newspaper publication.[7]

According to information provided by the military censor in response to a Freedom of Information request, in 2017 the censor banned the publication of 271 articles outright, and fully or partially redacted 21% of the articles submitted to it.''

This is just one article from Wikipedia- but representative of the fiction of a free Press in Israel.

OK everyone, I live here and am definitely not a Netanyahu supporter, but I'm going to bow out now and defer to others' knowledge from sources like Wikipedia!
All the best and I will stick to family / grandparenting issues from now on (I did wonder if it was a good idea to weigh in on the conflict...!)
Best to all, and wishing for PEACE!

Thank you for trying to share Phillippa sadly not possible

Philippa60

OK everyone, I live here and am definitely not a Netanyahu supporter, but I'm going to bow out now and defer to others' knowledge from sources like Wikipedia!
All the best and I will stick to family / grandparenting issues from now on (I did wonder if it was a good idea to weigh in on the conflict...!)
Best to all, and wishing for PEACE!

My sources weren't Wikipedia. It's impossible to know who is being truthful.

I'm sure we all wish for peace, but sadly I can't see it happening.

Unfortunately it rarely is on here, that's why many people including myself 'bow out,' often before 'bowing in'. I think it's worth remembering that Israel is the only tolerant democracy as we know it, in the Arab world one that most other Arab countries would gladly see wiped off the face of the earth with all its inhabitants. Uncomfortable if you are a citizen of that country.

None of us know the full facts. We are all fed information by our press and our Governments and we tend to believe whatever fits in best with our pre conceptions. Our own media and Government in the UK is leading us to unconditional support of Israel because we want to keep allied with America.
Most of the normal ordinary people on both sides of this conflict just want to live their lives in peace.
We should not, I think, give our blind support to either side, especially if it leads us to loose our compassion for the dead and injured, particularly the children.

Jaberwok

Unfortunately it rarely is on here, that's why many people including myself 'bow out,' often before 'bowing in'. I think it's worth remembering that Israel is the only tolerant democracy as we know it, in the Arab world one that most other Arab countries would gladly see wiped off the face of the earth with all its inhabitants. Uncomfortable if you are a citizen of that country.

Israel is holding on to it's "tolerant democracy" by a thread. Taken from yesterday's BBC website.

"A statement from the Supreme Court said that 8 out of 15 judges ruled against the law, adding it would have caused "severe and unprecedented damage to the basic characteristics of the State of Israel as a democratic state".

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67859177

Hamas are the enemy to both countries
It’s terrible. Hamas will kill their own and nobody will see this as something that is a threat … Jewish people have
been demonised and now people are taking sides when there are innocent Jewish babies and children that have been murdered in the most heinous way by so called human beings 🤦🏻‍♀️ there are innocent babies on all sides yet was saw many tearing down posters of the awful scenes of these precious souls being killed … All babies and children and innocent civilians should be stood up for .. !!!

No Flowerette not everybody is taking sides.

As you quite correctly write, Israeli and Palestinian babies and children have been killed.

Agree growstuff not everyone is taking sides, thankfully.

What should Israel have done after the attack?

You agree with what they did do?

Philippa60

OK everyone, I live here and am definitely not a Netanyahu supporter, but I'm going to bow out now and defer to others' knowledge from sources like Wikipedia!
All the best and I will stick to family / grandparenting issues from now on (I did wonder if it was a good idea to weigh in on the conflict...!)
Best to all, and wishing for PEACE!

We are ALL back seat drivers on here philippa60
You aren't, and as such your observations are more relevant.
I do hope/wish you could find a way to report your observations without entering into a bun fight with those who wish to do so?
It would be so useful.

Answering a question with a question?

Anniebach

What should Israel have done after the attack?

There is only one answer for some to that question: allow Hamas to take over and slaughter more Jews in their beds.

So what happens even if every single Hamas fighter is killed, including the leaders living abroad?

Whatever happens to the surviving Palestinians, it won't stop the radicalisation of yet more generations of Palestinians. Ben Gvir and Smotrich have already called for Palestinians to be settled abroad and for parts of south Lebanon do be re-annexed. What do you think that will solve?

It won't bring security to Israel.

What should Israel have done after the attack?

Namsnanny

Philippa60

OK everyone, I live here and am definitely not a Netanyahu supporter, but I'm going to bow out now and defer to others' knowledge from sources like Wikipedia!
All the best and I will stick to family / grandparenting issues from now on (I did wonder if it was a good idea to weigh in on the conflict...!)
Best to all, and wishing for PEACE!

We are ALL back seat drivers on here philippa60
You aren't, and as such your observations are more relevant.
I do hope/wish you could find a way to report your observations without entering into a bun fight with those who wish to do so?
It would be so useful.

Obviously Philippa can see what's happening in Israel and she has my sympathies, but I doubt if she's done a tour of Israeli prison cells and police stations, where Palestinians are held.

Anniebach

What should Israel have done after the attack?

Secured its border for a start and stopped destroying homes in the West Bank.

Namsnanny

Anniebach

What should Israel have done after the attack?

There is only one answer for some to that question: allow Hamas to take over and slaughter more Jews in their beds.

Restraint, measured military force, good intelligence and using political strategy to isolate the terrorists and ensure the continued support of most of the world. Terrorism is a political act and is better defeated by clever politics than brute force. Israel has always responded to attacks with violent retribution and it has solved absolutely nothing. It seems very likely that neither of the two aims of Israel ie to eliminate Hamas and to free the hostages, will be achieved. Terrorists want media attention, this incursion is giving them that in bucket loads. Terrorists want to be able to recruit more to their cause, Israel is doing the job for them. Terrorists believe their cause is "righteous" and the countries asking for a ceasefire and the marches for peace are, in their eyes, validating them whilst Israel is losing the sympathy of the world and isolating itself. In twenty years time Israel will still be trying to defend itself against terrorism, their citizens will be no safer, Gaza will be a wasteland and all the world will remember of this time will be the wholesale slaughter of innocent women and children by the IDF. The US spent over 2 trillion dollars trying to rid Afghanistan and Iraq of terrorists and still lost!

Thank you Namsanny and foxie48 for replying to my question