What is meant by multiculturalism?

Katie59

nanna8

From afar what I think of as British is
Very, very Historical buildings, especially castles,Westminster Abbey and things like Anne Boleyn’s residence. Stratford, of course and Shakespeare.
Green grass, really, really bright green
Pubs where people will just chat to you whether they know you or not
Accents wide and varied
Queues- mostly very orderly, no pushing
Red buses with a double deck.

That is all true BUT migrants do congregate in separate communities rather than disperse, which does change that area, particularly inner cities.

Nobody can argue that migrants have not changed Birmingham, Caribbean and Irish after WW2, more recently Asian and many other countries.

It has changed

Not all migrants congregate in separate communities. I do wish posters would stop seeing "all" migrants as a homogenous body of people. All sorts of people settle in the UK for all sorts of reasons.

Historically, many expats have extracted money from whatever country they moved to.

“That made me smile Katie59 have you not remembered about Brits living overseas, colonialism is alive and very much kicking. We rarely even bother to learn the language and mostly live in English communities”

ExPat communities are the opposite to migrants in inner cities, they are the wealthy introducing money and work into whichever country they move to. Although I travel widely I have no desire to live in any, certainly not in an expat enclave.

Multiculturism to me means acceptance of differences, sharing this country with others as other countries have shared with me Excitement of learning and welcoming difference.

That made me smile Katie59 have you not remembered about Brits living overseas, colonialism is alive and very much kicking. We rarely even bother to learn the language and mostly live in English communities When I lived overseas my one aim was to live with the locals learn and integrate but most Brits lived in ‘British areas’ and I suppose that’s understandable

I do not see England as ‘belonging’ to me it happened to be where my parents gave birth to me I like this country and feel the links but I m very happy to share it and feel much, much richer for doing so

nanna8

From afar what I think of as British is
Very, very Historical buildings, especially castles,Westminster Abbey and things like Anne Boleyn’s residence. Stratford, of course and Shakespeare.
Green grass, really, really bright green
Pubs where people will just chat to you whether they know you or not
Accents wide and varied
Queues- mostly very orderly, no pushing
Red buses with a double deck.

That is all true BUT migrants do congregate in separate communities rather than disperse, which does change that area, particularly inner cities.

Nobody can argue that migrants have not changed Birmingham, Caribbean and Irish after WW2, more recently Asian and many other countries.

It has changed

nanna8

I didn’t know this was a thread about immigrants, must wear my glasses in future.

So where does multiculturalism come from, if not immigrants?

I didn’t know this was a thread about immigrants, must wear my glasses in future.

I've never heard of any immigrants making our grass any less green or our buses any less red.

From afar what I think of as British is
Very, very Historical buildings, especially castles,Westminster Abbey and things like Anne Boleyn’s residence. Stratford, of course and Shakespeare.
Green grass, really, really bright green
Pubs where people will just chat to you whether they know you or not
Accents wide and varied
Queues- mostly very orderly, no pushing
Red buses with a double deck.

M0nica

Vintagewhine There are a significant number of, mainly muslim, commuities where even the most respected male elders will talk and consider women and girls, who do not adhere to their strict cultural norms for women as prostitutes and whores, and that is how they see women in wider society around them, who have the choice to take what sexual partners they wish when they wish, and the right to reject those they do not wish to have a physical relationship with, as being prostitutes who should be prepared to have sex with however wants to have sex with them and be raped if they resisted.

Many of these vile men - and I would not argue with your description of them were respected in their community.

As for suggesting the police did nothing because they met with such shock and horror from the 'decent' ethnic population, is absolutely risible. Did you read any of the report following the cases in Rotheram and Oxford. There was the Alex Jay report www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-exploitation-in-rotherham and the Select Committee of Parliament enquiry publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmhaff/68/6802.htm

I find your post really distressing Monica, in fact it makes me feel sick to my stomach to know that a “ significant? ” number of the Muslim men treat their women as prostitutes and whores.

My family in the Far East are Muslims. My nieces, they all have equal access to education and practically all of them went to local universities studying STEM subjects and work full time. One of them is a criminal lawyer.

I was told that my cousin’s wife went to study in America (not sure for how long) and she left her husband and children behind with her husband’s consent of course.

I am pleased to say that my brothers and BILs treat their wives no different that the way my English husband treats me.

Talking to the Pakistani taxi drivers here in the UK, I got the impression they’re the same.

I did ask them whether they celebrate Christmas and put up the Christmas tree in their homes and I was surprised when they answered yes.

Dinahmo There's more to multiculturalism than that. It goes back centuries. We have all been influenced by and benefited from ideas which originated in other cultures.

Katie59

growstuff

Katie59 I wonder how much you know about living as a Muslim in the UK. You appear to be lumping "them" altogether. The reality is different.

There is a massive difference a few years ago I became close friends with a Muslim family and visited their home frequently. The mother living with them did wear a headscarf, the younger women dressed in “eastern style” otherwise nothing special. The family did live Islamic lives, the children attends religious classes in the same way I attended Sunday school.
So I can contrast them with the others that wear full Islamic regalia and live sharia lives.

As you possibly know, my son-in-law comes from an Arab Muslim family. I've met his family and I don't recognise the stereotyping of Arabs or Muslims.

I looked up a few definitions of culture and came up with the following:

"the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively"

"the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society."

the definition I found for multiculturism is:

"the presence of, or support for the presence of, several distinct cultural or ethnic groups within a society."

Many of the posts describe negative events such as grooming and FGM. Some of them talk about bagpipes and haggis and Henley Regatta as if that was the total sum. But there is much more to the culture of the United Kingdom of which we can be very proud, than the aforementioned. London and the other major cities are teeming with a wide variety of art, architecture, music and dance. There used to be more support for local, multicultural activities. than there is currently.

The BBC and other major channels produce many cultural programmes, such as the Young Dancer of the year competition which features Indian dancers, street, hip hop artists, ballet and contemporary dancers.

The UK is probably the best served country for ethnic foods which everyone can enjoy if they wish.

growstuff

Katie59 I wonder how much you know about living as a Muslim in the UK. You appear to be lumping "them" altogether. The reality is different.

There is a massive difference a few years ago I became close friends with a Muslim family and visited their home frequently. The mother living with them did wear a headscarf, the younger women dressed in “eastern style” otherwise nothing special. The family did live Islamic lives, the children attends religious classes in the same way I attended Sunday school.
So I can contrast them with the others that wear full Islamic regalia and live sharia lives.

Skydancer

I see no advantages whatsoever to the multiculturalism that is today's Britain.

The UK has been multicultural for thousands of years. What kind of monoculture do you envisage Skydancer?

I see no advantages whatsoever to the multiculturalism that is today's Britain.

Katie59 I wonder how much you know about living as a Muslim in the UK. You appear to be lumping "them" altogether. The reality is different.

There is a new school currently being built in my locality. It is a Muslim only school. Non Muslims will not be allowed to attend. Despite protests it was signed off. I can’t see how children attending this school will experience any other cultures. It is creating an even bigger divide. People are shocked that this is happening. Other religious schools have to take a percentage of different religious or non religious children but not this one. Multiculturalism?

It’s not just the women, the men have to behave according to the cultural norms or they get cut off from the society. Obviously it’s not as restrictive as women, but most have a strict religious education and are obliged to attend the mosque regularly. There are many advantages of being a good Muslim which are not available to those who choose not to be part of the community.

M0nica

In certain communities, no choice is available, you go by the community rules or you are ejected. The stories that girls, who have made the choice and done something their community does not approve of have been cut off by their fsmily and several have been murdered.

This is not specifically Islamic. It has happened in the extreme Orthodox Jew community and some of the more fundementalist Christian communities like the Jehovah's Witnesses, Plymouth Brethren and, i think, in Scientology, plus, of course those very odd extremist cults.

Until not very long ago, in the Catholic church- and still so in parts of the world.

MOnica, I am very familiar with the Jay report and it supports my view
Thanks for posting it, it's horrible to read but hopefully in the future "culture" and "race" are never seen as reasons for failing to deal effectively with criminals. This is why it's vital to call these crimes out for what they are rather than pretend that they are the cultural norms of certain ethnic groups. This is how we help the abused women and children in all parts of our society, it's about power not religion and we should demonstrate forcibly that we know that and will protect everyone in our society.

In certain communities, no choice is available, you go by the community rules or you are ejected. The stories that girls, who have made the choice and done something their community does not approve of have been cut off by their fsmily and several have been murdered.

This is not specifically Islamic. It has happened in the extreme Orthodox Jew community and some of the more fundementalist Christian communities like the Jehovah's Witnesses, Plymouth Brethren and, i think, in Scientology, plus, of course those very odd extremist cults.

greenlady102 All of us are taught to make choices according to what our parents and our circumstances believe or do....but as we grow up and experience other people's opinions and choices it has an effect on our own. That is what I mean by choice....that people should be given the opportunity to experience other ways of living and to decide what of their upbringing they want to keep or change.

Ideally yes, but in practice are these teenage girls allowed to experience other ways of living and to choose their own way? Some of them are made to wear a hijab in Primary school even though it should be a choice they make when older. Within their family group they are unlikely to be allowed to make a choice in anything.

Vintagewhine There are a significant number of, mainly muslim, commuities where even the most respected male elders will talk and consider women and girls, who do not adhere to their strict cultural norms for women as prostitutes and whores, and that is how they see women in wider society around them, who have the choice to take what sexual partners they wish when they wish, and the right to reject those they do not wish to have a physical relationship with, as being prostitutes who should be prepared to have sex with however wants to have sex with them and be raped if they resisted.

Many of these vile men - and I would not argue with your description of them were respected in their community.

As for suggesting the police did nothing because they met with such shock and horror from the 'decent' ethnic population, is absolutely risible. Did you read any of the report following the cases in Rotheram and Oxford. There was the Alex Jay report www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/279/independent-inquiry-into-child-sexual-exploitation-in-rotherham and the Select Committee of Parliament enquiry publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmhaff/68/6802.htm

I get what you're saying, that in many ways people all enjoy the same things. I made a list because someone asked me to define English culture, and to me that means things and activities only found in England or primarily associated with England.