The very sad case of Sara Sharif

Iam64 do not say you know nothing about this subject as you clearly do, and you gave some valid opinions and there is nothing wrong in doing that.

Diamond Lily it is correct that sometimes things are done right and sometimes they are not.
S.Workers do have high caseloads but they must be vigilant and work hard to protect vulnerable children.
Some parents will struggle but can make it with a good support worker in place and even the help from the school with parenting classes. The problems being that the funding is not always there to have a support worker for long.

Depending on the school there are safeguarding staff in place and I am sure they do their jobs to the best of their ability, although once again even they can get it wrong.
Lots of questions need to have answers in regard of Sara's case although getting the adults back first is needed.
I do hope the other children they absconded with are all okay. They have all been uprooted and taken away from the routine they know. Perhaps the children will never be brought back.

It really has Diamond Lily

Maddyone - the little boy you will always remember is like many those of us trying to safeguard always remember. Some parents struggle and can be ‘good enough’ (the legal baseline) with support and guidance.
Not all people can be anywhere close to good enough, no matter how much support they get. Some are cruel, we have huge mh/drug/alcohol problems in the uk. This compounds poor parenting.
No simple solutions to complex problems

I worked in a Child Protection dept for a number of years.

Sometimes, it's done "very right", sometimes it's not.

Humans are fallible, and with high caseloads, there is the potential for things going wrong.

Unfortunately, some people do know how to manipulate professionals.

It's always been like that.

Iam64

I’m not defending poor practice in any way. I’ve personal and professional experience of the family court.
If I chose, I could detail some dreadful safeguarding in schools and other agencies

I hope this would not be the case today Iam although I’m sure you’re right about the past in some cases.
I believe we were very hot on this at the school I worked in. I remember being very upset and crying one afternoon after I sent a child home to be abused again in my opinion. The Social Worker came out to see me so she acted swiftly and the police visited the home that night and spoke to the child concerned and concluded that at four years old, he was an unreliable witness. He was left in situ, and never returned to our school. We did pass on our concerns and evidence to the next school, but I’ll never know what the outcome was. I’ve never forgotten that child and how despite what he told me, I was unable to help him.

It is difficult for those who oversee the welfare of children, but I know that the family courts do operate with the best interests of the children in mind. Both parents can attend and have legal representation and each child has legal representation. Where there are language barriers then interpreters are employed to ensure everyone understands what is happening and what is being said. Judges consider carefully with all the information that is available to them. They make their judgment solely in the best interests of the child and are aware that not everyone will be happy with the outcome. They do their best, it’s all anyone can do.

In this particular case I feel that it’s possible that the courts weren’t involved due to the highly unsatisfactory situation Sara was clearly in. I hope in due course that the public will know why she was left in this abusive home with adults who didn’t care for her when she appeared to have a mother and Polish family who loved her. This may not be the case but without explanation we will forever wonder.

I’m not defending poor practice in any way. I’ve personal and professional experience of the family court.
If I chose, I could detail some dreadful safeguarding in schools and other agencies

Iam64

I surrender. I know nothing about this subject I’ll leave it to those who do

Nobody is saying you know nothing about the subject just that there have been problems. I have worked with Social Services as a teacher and as a Grandparent so I have great sympathy with the hard job SW's have especially in current times with a lack of staff and resources. However, on more than one occasion, I have also seen some quite wrong reports by SW's where the information hasn't even related to the family concerned so mistakes are obviously made. Our family also has a congenital condition where bruising is something that happens easily, along with dislocations and some parents have suffered duress because of this.

Iam64
How long were you protecting children 🤔

I surrender. I know nothing about this subject I’ll leave it to those who do

IcanHandthemback :

Yes you are also correct in some cases parents can lose several children who are put up for adoption because of perceived abuse. It is only later that medical evidence turns up to show that the parents had not abused the child. Every piece of evidence should be disclosed to the parents and their legal team so this could go before the court.

I could not imagine losing several children to adoption and also once an adoption order has been granted that is the end
there is no chance to have that child returned something I think no body could ever get over.

The full Childrens Act needs updating and overhauling.

Iam64 You are correct from a few families I know the parents do not get any opportunity to put information across to the judge.

Sadly there are children ending up having their futures decided by a family court. It must be that the identity of these children
has to be protected as they have already gone through trauma.
Parents can be legally represented sometimes with not the best of barristers in the family court and often with a stand in barrister that is not totally fully aware of the case. The children are also represented through CaffCass called the children's guardian who I know to be totally independent of the social worker however I have known of the children's guardian to have an office next door to the social workers and they were all on good terms.
I still know that the services of social care for children is needed in the U.K. I do not fully support how the law can rule everything for the child.

Government statutory guidance called The Children's Act 1989 guidance and regulations : Volume2 : care planning, placement and case review, reminds children's services of the
importance of maintaining relationships between children and their wider family network.

Unless it is not in the childs best interests , children's services must promote contact between a child looked after under court orders.
I have known several families that have had to fight hard just to keep the contact going and all they get offered is a contact center when in fact they have no criminal records or drug/alcohol problems.
In my opinion The Childrens Act needs a complete overhaul as with the correct help many children in foster care and childrens homes could at some point be returned to their families.

Iam64

3nanny6. from a few people I know very often the parents are given no opportunity to put across any information they want heard by the judge

Only the most vulnerable children end up having their future decided by a family court.
The children involved do not want to be identified by journalists.
Parents in public law are legally represented. The children are legally represented through their Children’s Guardian who is totally independent of the social workers.
The Children Act has the welfare of the child central. Keeping children safe within their family is always the first aim. An adoption care plan sadly at times what is best/least worse for a child.

What is very wrong is that preventive work, support systems, sure start, family aids, drug/alcohol/mental health services have been decimated.

And yet for some cases, whole families have been put up for adoption because of perceived abuse by the parents which has turned out to be because of medical issues. Even though the children have, say, had severe bruising whilst in foster care, this has not been shown to the court. Maybe these sorts of cases should have all the evidence disclosed to the parents and their legal team so that this sort of thing could be picked up earlier. There was one mother who lost her children and even though it turned out she was not abuser, they had been adopted and they were lost forever to her.
It is quite possible for children not to be identified by the public. It happens all the time in criminal trials involving children so it is ingenious that the should be used as the excuse.

3nanny6. from a few people I know very often the parents are given no opportunity to put across any information they want heard by the judge

Only the most vulnerable children end up having their future decided by a family court.
The children involved do not want to be identified by journalists.
Parents in public law are legally represented. The children are legally represented through their Children’s Guardian who is totally independent of the social workers.
The Children Act has the welfare of the child central. Keeping children safe within their family is always the first aim. An adoption care plan sadly at times what is best/least worse for a child.

What is very wrong is that preventive work, support systems, sure start, family aids, drug/alcohol/mental health services have been decimated.

I fully agree with you Diamond Lily and Iam64 and think there is so much that has to come out about this case. Social services have given no comments so far only to say that the family were known to them, the police have commented that the family were also known to them over a period of time and there is a background history known of them. Social services will make no comment until they have had their legal team go through everything on file about the family they will not hold up their hands about any wrongdoing or accept any blame on their part until everything comes out.

As has been already mentioned these family courts are held in utmost secrecy and nobody is allowed in. There has never been any journalists allowed to sit in, for reasons given that it is not in the best interests of the child for this sort of business to be open to public opinions. Only since late 2022 and early
2023 has a trial period been granted to allow several journalists to sit in on on proceedings and only then are they told they can only print very limited information, and nothing must identify who any of the children are.
These courts are completely secretive and from a few people I know very often the parent/parents are given no opportunity to put across any information they want heard by the judge. I am not saying the social services are above all law but they have a lot of power and they usually exit these courts with the results they want and often parents do not have a leg to stand on.
A worrying background for many as often children are put up for adoption.

the family court may have been involved in private, not public law proceedings. Most parents manage arrangements about who the child lives with, how often they see/stay with/holiday with the parent they don’t live with full time. Increasingly, many parents share 50% of the time. These parents may have reached an informal arrangement. We don’t know.

It’s unusual for a child to have such limited contact with the non resident parent. As Diamond Lily says, there’s a complex worrying background here.

I’m not convinced that the courts have had anything to do with this. Families can be known to Social Services without the courts being involved. Likewise with the police. It would be highly unlikely that a court would give a natural mother no access to her child apart from two visits in four years. Since we know the father is violent it also seems unlikely that a court would give custody of the two children to him with no visits allowed from the mother. The mother would have been allowed supervised visits normally if it was deemed she was unsuitable. If the court had presided over this awful scenario then we could have absolutely no faith in the courts, and so I can’t believe this to be the case.

No we don’t have one Diamondlily
Going on to home schooling it can be good although I worry a lot about the socialising , myself I would have been mortified if all my friends were off to school laughing and joking and I was at home with a mum or gran as much as I loved them both it would have killed me
I know two home schooled families one very religious no TV s no phones no electrical gadgets the children all seem lovely (although the eldest daughter I notice sends her children to school) the others, now late teens upwards seem to have jobs in the family business
The other family of 8 children (latest Dad left) , mum has some medical or mental health problem that keeps her in bed a lot, one girl chose to carry on at school how I admire her ….her brothers and sisters were playing on Xbox most of the day ( I can hear through the open windows) or staying in bed or just dossing around They are now totally dysfunctional one son who has become hugely overweight is a recluse one son and one daughter started having children at 16, one lad is a pot washer in a pub I think it can be terribly sad and needs a lot more overseeing than happens at present

Sooner or later, there will be some sort of enquiry, as usual, so I suppose more will be known then.

Meanwhile, I hope they manage to find these missing family members and extradite them back here.

Not sure is we have an extradition treaty with Pakistan though, assuming they are still there.

Earlier this year, journalists were allowed to observe some family court hearings. They could interview ‘lay people’, presumably involved family members. The Judge set limits on what could be recorded and nothing that could identify the children was allowed.
The family courts have been criticised for ‘secrecy’. Any research into what the children involved want, always confirms they do not want publicity on their circumstances.
Diamond Lily is right, there’s a complex, sad background here.

Callistemon21

Yes, it has upset me too, maddyone, how she must have suffered since her father gained custody.

How could this father gain custody with the mother allowed access only twice a year?
Was it a British court which decided this and on what grounds?

Sara was not attending school either although the other children did. How did this poor child slip through the net?

I don't know the reasons, but it would have been sorted out through our Family Court. Their cases are confidential, and reasons not given publicly.

There's obviously a lot of background to this - poor lass.🙁

A growing number of people here home school. Whilst it is not something I would have ever done and I can see a lot of negatives, I have to admit the children I have come across seem happy and well adjusted and very polite and intelligent. Mostly the ones I have come across are from religious families, particularly Baptists and there are different reasons for this choice. I would worry that their life experiences are too narrow and what happens when they grow up and hit the workforce? They sometimes meet with other homeschool pupils but not that often.

Whilst I get what you are saying, Bluecat, I really think the Home Schooling system should be updated. At the moment there is no joined up thinking about the balances and checks that should be put into place to ensure that children are getting a safe and nurturing environment to thrive in. I am not against a child being educated at home at all. 2 children in our family have been home schoolers and have not suffered for it.
One of them went back into the education system and she was streets ahead of her peer group. The other is ASD and learns well but her education is geared around her obsessions. She left school after a couple of years. She was held back because she was a late birthday in the academic year and her parents were aware of the problems it caused them. She masked well at school but despite an official ASD diagnosis, the teachers refused to believe it...something the parents found out after a FOI request. As their daughter was coming home wanting to commit suicide at the age of 7, they removed her from the school system. No more talk of suicide and a much happier child.

Bluecat Yes, children have been murdered at the hands of parents or those who were supposed to be caring for them even though they were still attending school. Abusive parents can be very clever at deceiving teachers, social workers and other professional.
I remember the case of little Daniel Pelka.

Home schooled children should be checked regularly, I would have thought, because it could be so easy for them to disappear from the radar and suffer lives of cruelty or sheer neglect.

I am currently helping to homeschool my granddaughter, after persistent bullying at school, and I know that the home educating community was immediately aware that the death of this poor little girl would result in people attacking the idea of home education.

It is likely that this little one was withdrawn from school because she had signs of injury, and we can't be sure that it hasn't happened in a few previous cases, given that there are so many child murders in the UK -about one per week. However, I would like to make a couple of points.

Sara's injuries were visible when she was at school. Not only to the staff, as other children had previously told their parents about them. So the abuse had already been noticed before she was withdrawn. It was not a case of nobody knowing, but this did not save her life.

If an issue has been raised with Social Services, the fact that a child has been deregistered from school makes no difference. They still have the power - and, of course, the duty - to investigate. Whether a child is at school or not, social workers should be investigating and interviewing the parents. It may be that the parents made sure that they were always out when the social workers called, but they would hardly be the only ones to try this dodge. In previous cases of child abuse leading to murder, it usually turns out that the parents have been avoiding social workers for months, even though their kids are at school. Others have manipulated their social workers into accepting fabricated stories about their child's welfare.

Home education does not prevent the authorities from doing their duty, nor does school attendance ensure that it will be done. In practically all cases of the murder of school age children, the victim has been at school. The abuse has usually gone on for months, or even years, despite the fact that the child has been attending school. Admittedly the attendance is sometimes irregular, but they have nearly always been to school, been seen by neighbours, and have not been hidden from sight. But this has not prevented their murder.

Over the years, there have been so many terrible cases and so many calls for greater protection of vulnerable children, and yet the cruelty continues. Maybe part of the answer involves more funding for social services. Maybe we also need greater rights for grandparents, to see their grandkids more regularly and not be afraid that, if they report concerns, they will be prevented from ever seeing them again. A watchful granny would not have saved poor Sara, whose relatives were far away in Poland and Pakistan, but other kids might be saved in future.

Cambsnan

I have friends who work in child services and they always say if you want to know what is going on in a family ask the grandma. All too often professionals dismiss concerns of wider family. They are not mentioned in this case but where were they?

In Poland and Pakistan, so nowhere in sight.