An election looms, so I think it is time to look at all the success over the 13 years that we have witnessed from the government.

Trying to label Starmer as untrustworthy is little short of laughable especially when there are politicians far more qualified for that category, all of them Tories.

Grantanow

Trying to label Starmer as untrustworthy is little short of laughable especially when there are politicians far more qualified for that category, all of them Tories.

Smacks of desperation imo!

But Starmer wants to give the impression he’s honest but he is deceitful dishonest and a dangerous man.

See what this woman says about his time as DPP

m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ef_Y_jrafc

Plus there is the Matt Kennard the investigative journalist video about on YouTube

And an interview with Matt Kennard Starmer Stories on YouTube.

So, can I ask you again who you want to be in government after the next election? Because it’s Starmer or five more years of the Tories.

No one wants the tories Many people of all ages in YouGov poll don’t like Starmer.

He is reactionary establishment nothing will change he will keep the status quo

But who do you want Grany? Why won’t you say?
Btw it’s not correct to say that no-one wants the Conservatives.

It's no good condemning the two main parties, Grany without offering an alternative and campaigning for them.

Or do you want to bring back Corbyn, McDonnell and Momentum?
That combination didn't go down too well, did it.

I think the perceived problem with Mr. Starmer for some Labour supporters is that he is not left enough.

I think that in order to win the next election he has to appeal to the disenfranchised Conservative voters along with the floaters.

Just my opinion on hearing/seeing his media interviews.

GrannyGravy13

I think the perceived problem with Mr. Starmer for some Labour supporters is that he is not left enough.

I think that in order to win the next election he has to appeal to the disenfranchised Conservative voters along with the floaters.

Just my opinion on hearing/seeing his media interviews.

I think that in order to win the next election he has to appeal to the disenfranchised Conservative voters along with the floaters

Yes, he does.

However, I do take the point that he could be prevaricative.
He needs to take a firmer stance on certain issues.

I don’t mind that he’s not left wing, but I would like him to allow space for left wing politicians in government. I just wish I felt he was trustworthy but I don’t. To say that he’s better than the government we’ve got isn’t much of a recommendation to be truthful, it would be hard to find anyone or anything worse. We deserve better.

Grany

No one wants the tories Many people of all ages in YouGov poll don’t like Starmer.

He is reactionary establishment nothing will change he will keep the status quo

Many people, of all ages, will vote for Starmer. At this point we don't yet know how many.

Are you a raving hard-right activist by any chance Grany? Because you seem to be doing your very best to get them back in. It's obvious you prefer that to a left-of-center government.

nightowl

I don’t mind that he’s not left wing, but I would like him to allow space for left wing politicians in government. I just wish I felt he was trustworthy but I don’t. To say that he’s better than the government we’ve got isn’t much of a recommendation to be truthful, it would be hard to find anyone or anything worse. We deserve better.

We had a Labour Party full of left wing Labour supporters on the front bench. It resulted in Boris Johnson as PM with a stonking great majority. The very people the left wing of the party want to help voted for him.

MayBee70

nightowl

I don’t mind that he’s not left wing, but I would like him to allow space for left wing politicians in government. I just wish I felt he was trustworthy but I don’t. To say that he’s better than the government we’ve got isn’t much of a recommendation to be truthful, it would be hard to find anyone or anything worse. We deserve better.

We had a Labour Party full of left wing Labour supporters on the front bench. It resulted in Boris Johnson as PM with a stonking great majority. The very people the left wing of the party want to help voted for him.

Well that’s one opinion Maybee but I think it’s rather simplistic. I would like a labour party that’s a broad church but they never seem able to manage it, whoever is at the top. And when you’ve seen a local CLP member driven out with no reason given, someone who has worked all his adult life for the party and for local issues, and you’ve seen this good man broken then I’m afraid it gives one a rather jaundiced view of this brave new party Starmer seems to want to create.

GrannyGravy13

I think the perceived problem with Mr. Starmer for some Labour supporters is that he is not left enough.

I think that in order to win the next election he has to appeal to the disenfranchised Conservative voters along with the floaters.

Just my opinion on hearing/seeing his media interviews.

Yes you are right. It is a real tightrope he is walking, as he has to appeal to the red wall up north, and the Tory disenfranchised and floating voters down south.

Looking at the polls he is succeeding, but I take nothing for granted.

nightowl

MayBee70

nightowl

I don’t mind that he’s not left wing, but I would like him to allow space for left wing politicians in government. I just wish I felt he was trustworthy but I don’t. To say that he’s better than the government we’ve got isn’t much of a recommendation to be truthful, it would be hard to find anyone or anything worse. We deserve better.

We had a Labour Party full of left wing Labour supporters on the front bench. It resulted in Boris Johnson as PM with a stonking great majority. The very people the left wing of the party want to help voted for him.

Well that’s one opinion Maybee but I think it’s rather simplistic. I would like a labour party that’s a broad church but they never seem able to manage it, whoever is at the top. And when you’ve seen a local CLP member driven out with no reason given, someone who has worked all his adult life for the party and for local issues, and you’ve seen this good man broken then I’m afraid it gives one a rather jaundiced view of this brave new party Starmer seems to want to create.

Perhaps another left wing party should be formed?

Whitewavemark2

nightowl

MayBee70

nightowl

I don’t mind that he’s not left wing, but I would like him to allow space for left wing politicians in government. I just wish I felt he was trustworthy but I don’t. To say that he’s better than the government we’ve got isn’t much of a recommendation to be truthful, it would be hard to find anyone or anything worse. We deserve better.

We had a Labour Party full of left wing Labour supporters on the front bench. It resulted in Boris Johnson as PM with a stonking great majority. The very people the left wing of the party want to help voted for him.

Well that’s one opinion Maybee but I think it’s rather simplistic. I would like a labour party that’s a broad church but they never seem able to manage it, whoever is at the top. And when you’ve seen a local CLP member driven out with no reason given, someone who has worked all his adult life for the party and for local issues, and you’ve seen this good man broken then I’m afraid it gives one a rather jaundiced view of this brave new party Starmer seems to want to create.

Perhaps another left wing party should be formed?

Why can’t we just have a broad church Whitewave? Stronger together. Or is there really no room for socialists in the Labour Party?

Germanshepherdsmum

But who do you want Grany? Why won’t you say?
Btw it’s not correct to say that no-one wants the Conservatives.

It would help the Conservatives GSM if they stopped shooting themselves in the foot. Incompetence is not a very good look.

It's become increasingly obvious that they haven't got a single expert, in government or in politics, among them. It is often the case that MPs are not experts in the area they are put into. But this lot will not even talk to experts, lest they be people who didn't support Brexit.

Sadly, although Brexit may have won them a large majority (there were four larger ones in 1983, 1987, 1997 and 2001), Brexit could now wipe them out.

This would not be because of the vote, but because they cannot get past the need to win that vote. It is all this 13-year government has existed for, and yet, slowly but surely, they are losing those voters. There was an argument against Brexit. However, the Johnson Tories gave it cult status. As with all cults, people drift away as they come to their senses. Some stay; some are even prepared to commit suicide. Political, in this case. Sadly there is never a good end to cults.

This has been a a 13-year government of the inexperienced. Most experienced MPs were thrown out of the party during the Johnson coup. Many of those left had joined at the time Johnson called out for new blood. Most of those joined with no political or the necessary education which is usually gained on the back benches.

There are too incompetent to run a country. This group of MPs have done massive damage to Britain. We need a government that, more than anything, is competent to drag us out of the mire they have put us into.

Sunak has proved he is not such a man, and his government have proved their incompetence. How could anyone vote for this shower?

I think your "broad church" simply won't command sufficient voters nightowl. That's why we need PR. Then all the hard-left votes in the country will count to give the far right probably 9 - 11% or similar, of the vote and therefore the seats.

It will then be up to that party to see if they can form a coalition. The ability to be part of that coalition will be based on who else has been voted for and what they can agree on with other parties can.

No group that represents no more than 11% of the country should be able, or be in a position to govern it. That's what's happened over the last 13 years although I imagine that the hard-right are only about 9% of the country as they are believed to be fewer than the hard-left in the UK. I don't think it's a good example to follow in the future.

How many experts does Labour have DAR?

against Bexit against membership of the EU

Germanshepherdsmum

How many experts does Labour have DAR?

I am sure you wrote without thinking as you will know that, as well as not giving you the answer you want GSM, that is a totally fallacious argument.

Genuine question, given that you say the Conservatives don’t have a single expert among them, in government or in politics (which I assume is meant to include MPs with no ministerial role). So please answer my question, if you can.

Fair enough Daisy. But I don’t believe socialist = far left so there may be more of us than you think
I believe debate strengthens a party, shutting down debate (as is happening in the LP at the moment) just kills free thought and creates a monster.

I' with you, nightowl.

I think it's unfortunate that 'socialist' still has strong associations with the regimes of the former soviet union and I wish there were a better word to describe the desire for a society in which there is a more equable distribution of wealth, a duty of care for vulnerable members of society and greater equality between its citizens.

I'm with you...