Labour’s policy on the Trans issue

Transpeople are accommodated in society. They have the same rights as everyone else, plus protection under hate crime legislation and the EA.

Those who live quietly under the radar are likely to be accepted by all but those who dislike any difference. It is those who force their way into women’s safe spaces, who threaten and intimidate feminists and insist on changes to the way women are defined who are the issue. The ones who refused to even debate with us, who call us TERFs and cancel opposing voices. There is no reason I can see why such undemocratic and violent people should be accommodated.

Women are 51 % of the population.
It's often not easy to be a woman particularly if you have been raped and sexually assaulted.
Women are human beings and surely deserve some measure of accommodation within society.

Trans folk are a small minority. I have only ever met two.

I am so glad that none any of my family or close friends are trans.

It is not an easy place to be. But trans folk are human beings like you and me and so deserve basic respect and human rights - which should surely include some measure of accommodation within our society.



i

Yes, it’s as though everyone should move aside for those who want to use the loos for the opposite sex. Women, babies, the disabled - who am I missing out here? Oh yes - men! They get to keep their urinals and separate facilities whilst men saying they are women force their way into ours.

varian

Perhaps anyone transitioning should use the disabled loo. Would that solve the problem?

Not if you're disabled, and waiting to use it..

Thanks. Yes, I agree

By 'small minority' I meant any group of self-appointed, noisy activists pretending (in the correct sense of the word) to represent a particular cause.

The one good thing with the increased publicity the trans activists have generated, with protests etc. is that more people, especially biological women, are aware of what's going on.

Where voting is concerned, I would never vote Tory, but unless Labour sort themselves out with all this, and clarify what they will do, I won't be voting for Labour either.

To be fair, Starmer does seem to be backtracking a bit, because he's realised that it will turn some voters away if he doesn't.

The issue is important to me, alongside other things.

Who do you see as ‘a small minority’, Grantanow? The 50% or so of the population who are women, or the tiny percentage who actually suffer from clinical gender dysphoria? Which rights do you see as more important here? Sorry, but it’s not clear from your post.

Yes, there are urgent priorities. But, I'm not sure biological women, and their concerns, should be classed as a small minority.

There are several issues that make me decide who to vote for.

There are far more urgent matters to deal with - the overall mess left by the Tories - housing, the cost of living, ineffective energy policy, etc., - than the concerns of a small minority. Labour's prime task now is to gain power at the GE and avoid being monstered by the Tory press.

Doodledog

That story is disgraceful. It is further evidence that this issue is not confined to a few militants, and what happens when institutions get 'captured' by the Stonewall agenda. If a hospital will cancel an important operation, and people who speak out are cancelled or lose their careers, what more needs to happen before people stop seeing this as about 'kindness' and 'authentic selves'?

Was it kind to cancel her operation, putting her health and possibly her life, at risk?

The person who entered the room had no need to be there, it was a provocative act and their "hurt" feelings do not trump those of a patient awaiting an operation.

It's worrying that, the more we are failed by long NHS waiting lists, the more people seek private care and therefore risk being left untreated if they do not agree with the politically correct policies of the private system.

Maxine Estop Green, the hospital’s CEO, is denying someone vital healthcare, is discriminating against the patient and possibly breaking the law.

Is the form patients are required to complete in fact legal?

No, it was shocking, and there was no actual need for this person to even be in the room.

The patient was already being dealt with by someone else..

I'm surprised actually, as I thought private hospitals had a bit more common sense.

They lost money, and the patient ended up on the NHS, very ill.

The NHS hospital respected her wishes.

That story is disgraceful. It is further evidence that this issue is not confined to a few militants, and what happens when institutions get 'captured' by the Stonewall agenda. If a hospital will cancel an important operation, and people who speak out are cancelled or lose their careers, what more needs to happen before people stop seeing this as about 'kindness' and 'authentic selves'?

The woman, who had her (important) operation cancelled, has told her story. She's doing it, as she's retired, is legally trained, and says she has nothing to lose by speaking out:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12398959/Retired-solicitor-left-deaths-door-surgery-cancelled-dared-object-trans-woman-nurse-hospital-room-tells-shocking-story-vowing-cancel-Im-not-scared-speak-out.html

Disabled loos are usually in the Ladies, as are the baby change facilities, so women, who take longer anyway, have to wait even longer to use them, which gets worse when they are also designated ’gender neutral’.

Why not have male and female ones, and fight for acceptance of transpeople as transpeople, not pretend they have changed sex.

People with disabilities fought very hard for those facilities. I wont forget the day I watched an incredibly entitled woman explaining to a woman in the wheelchair that she had used the disabled toilet as she had a corset on that was really hard to remove. The woman in the wheelchair showed more restraint than I would have been capable of.
Either provide an enclosed cubicle with sink or provide single sex and gender neutral toilets.

Perhaps anyone transitioning should use the disabled loo. Would that solve the problem?

Absolutely.

We also should challenge the weirdly sexist ideas that have been aired by those in the medical profession, what kn earth does living as a woman mean. Its sexist nonsense. If I never use a public toilet again I will still be a woman.

varian

There are also women who want to transition and have to live as men for two years. Which loo should they use?

As I keep saying I think that everyone should use facilities in line with their sex, not their so-called ‘gender’, and if people want to do otherwise they should come up with solutions. If transwomen want to use male facilities they should ask men what they think and come up with an acceptable solution. It’s none of my business. I am only talking about safe spaces here. Places where women and girls are vulnerable. I don’t know why that’s hard to understand.

The Atlantic has a piece in it this week about how the gender war is over in Britain, focusing on Keir Starmer’s latest position.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/uk-trans-rights-labour-party/674944/

There are also women who want to transition and have to live as men for two years. Which loo should they use?

Not for me to say, really. Why are these things pushed onto women to decide? What does the man think would be a good idea, and how would he ensure that there was no risk to the women whose sex he wants to become part of? I am thinking of protection for women and girls - the men who want to transition are thinking of men's wants.

So does a man wishing to transition, then manage to live as a woman for two years or whatever is required by the doctors to qualify for gender reassignment surgery, without being able to access a ladies loo?