Oracy in state schools

Very good point M0nica

Children only spend part of their day in nursery. Like reading it is up to parents to talk to them and read to them as well in there time together- and those are effectively the same thing.

In the 1970s, my MiL, a reception class teacher, used to talk about children who started school, having been talked at, talked over and talked through, but never having been talked to, and, as a result their vocabulary and comprehension of anything said to them was very low. Children are going to find it difficult to learn to read, if they haven't been talked to and got a basic vocabulary.

I think where effort and money needs to go first is in pre-maternal and mother and baby services, so that parents know and understand the importance of talking to their children, singing to their children and just looking at books and talking about them to their children, not reading them necessarily, just talking about pictures.

Yes, there will be families so disorganised and failing that they cannot handle this, in which case health visitors and their like should be identifying these children and getting them into nursery as soon as possible so that they can learn these essential skills then.

Adding oracy(what a silly word) verbal communication skills to the school curriculum, is a waste of time and money, if you haven't made sure that children have developed the neural pathways in infancy. If a child is born with sight or hearing problems, you do not wait to remedy and help the child until they reach school age, you help them from birth.

The same approach is necessary for developing verbal communication skills.

Mollygo

What do you think his a curriculum for the digital age means?

The curriculum for the digital age should already be in place and embedded in all subjects.
I used to run a Digital Literacy project in my LA twenty years ago, perhaps they will rediscover that?
I might be persuaded out of retirement. 😂😂😂 (perhaps not).

What do you think his a curriculum for the digital age means?

Joseann

Glorianny Boris is no more typical of a pupil from a private school than is a delinquent yobbo from the London comprehensive I attended!

Bill Turnbull was an Old Etonian.

He was nothing like Boris Johnon.

I couldn't make one of Bill's last presentations on bees, unfortunately, something I regret.

Glorianny Boris is no more typical of a pupil from a private school than is a delinquent yobbo from the London comprehensive I attended!

I have never criticised state schools, and I think they do more than OK with what they have.
It is smaller classes and more resources they need, not some fancy new changes to the curriculum.

Change always costs money and isn't always for the better.

State schools are doing OK, but when a new boss takes over there are always changes.
So Speaking and Listening with become Oracy.
The National Curriculum will become
A curriculum for the digital age
Et al

Well if this is a true example of a private education and speaking I think state schools are doing OK
www.google.com/search?q=boris+pepa+pigbooking.com&sxsrf=AB5stBgwtX93DeAsINflQlvNb-jr6OEzdA%3A1688817810658&ei=klCpZIHfJ-HYkdUP6Ia0iAE&ved=0ahUKEwiB8MbNiP__AhVhbKQEHWgDDREQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=boris+pepa+pigbooking.com&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQAzIFCAAQogRKBAhBGAFQzAdYzAdgoBZoAXAAeACAAbcBiAG3AZIBAzAuMZgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:f7d5af08,

The best practise for speaking publicly is debating. The best political speakers turn out to have been involved in debating at school then in further/higher education. As well as speaking voice/accent/voice volume etc it requires marshalling thoughts and presenting them logically. All very valid skills.

Some communicate with grunts, at the other end of the spectrum are really nice mature teens you can actually have a conversation with

The ones who communicate with grunts may be perfectly nice too. It's a teenage peculiarity.

In fact, the nice mature teens may be quite different at home than when they're out. It's often the case that other parents and grandparents say how lovely, chatty and interesting to converse with your teenage child/grandchild can be, unlike their own - who may be lovely and chatty when visiting your house 😯

They may be quite different at school or when they emerge from the teenage tunnel.

Harry Enfield and Kathy Burke nailed it as Kevin and Perry.

In my opinion communication and confidence is the biggest difference between private and state educated children. If we really want to reduce the social divide improve discipline and communication in state schools, will changes be made to enable this?, NO because parents will stop it happening.
Good post, Katie59.
And NO, because with 620,000 additional pupils flooding the state system (if Starmer abolishes fee paying schools 🤣 ), resources will be at breaking point, if they aren't already.

My various grandchildren have all had to give presentations publicly whilst they were in primary school and also in secondary school. Just part of the curriculum, something that is expected. Some are better of it than others but they all can do it without being particularly nervous. We all have more or less the same accent so that isn’t an issue here.
When I was at school you were expected to more or less just listen and public presentations were definitely not on the agenda. I actually like public speaking but I was well into adulthood before I was able to do it happily.

Long neglected, the ability to communicate has declined in recent years, there is a massive difference between different children a 16 yrs. Some communicate with grunts, at the other end of the spectrum are really nice mature teens you can actually have a conversation with. Working at Waitrose we have a lot of 16 yr + part timers, they are obviously chosen for their ability to do the job, they are lovely to work with, shy at first but very quickly find their feet.

In my opinion communication and confidence is the biggest difference between private and state educated children. If we really want to reduce the social divide improve discipline and communication in state schools, will changes be made to enable this?, NO because parents will stop it happening

They will not back the teachers up, even if the teachers do try to improve the system.

'Well' at the start of a sentence gives the speaker time to marshal their thoughts.
'Like' at the end of a sentence is a localised way of speaking. But, as with Eastender-speak, has spread to other areas.
As for Hansard correcting grammar, will it be putting adverbs in where the MP used an adjective, or making sure the singular subject doesn't have a plural verb ending? Maybe the Speaker or Dep Speaker could correct the MP as they are speaking! Pedants' Corner would need its own website.

Too many parents of all backgrounds spend too much time on their phones, I see it every day, pushing the buggy and phone in one hand. They make no eye contact with their child, nor converse with them. Oral skills are a two way thing from birth.

kjmpde

If verbal skills have been taught for years then why do so many kids use the word "like" every other word? If I was interviewing someone for a job and they kept saying LIKE I would not be happy.

Interesting kjmpde you talk about interviews. A year or so ago on GN I spoke of how my job was to do practice interviews in Year 6 to offer support and tips for children moving on to senior schools. (This valuable practice was ridiculed by a GN no longer posting!)

Anyway, LIKE was one of the things I advised them to avoid saying, or at least to cut back on. One young lad got a bit mixed up, and stuttered "I l..l..l ENJOY playing football." !!

kjmpde
Same reason as people start every sentence with so or well. It’s just what’s popular currently.

If verbal skills have been taught for years then why do so many kids use the word "like" every other word? If I was interviewing someone for a job and they kept saying LIKE I would not be happy.

Thanks Mollygo

And by Grannies who are asked to help with presentations! 😀

Callistemon21 twinkl.co.uk much in use in English schools as well.

Oops, that is the Welsh curriculum, TiggyW but it has very good resources for helping with presentations. There is probably an English equivalent.

Recently our 6 year old grandson was expected to prepare homework to deliver a presentation on the Great Fire of London (if possible using a computer!) I’m sure there’ll be plenty of parents who wouldn’t know where to start (even if they had the time or the inclination).

Twinkl, TiggyW!!
www.twinkl.co.uk/

TiggyW

Missdeke - I agree with your point about young tv presenters. Oracy has been on the school curriculum for years, so I’m not sure how these people get their jobs. Probably something to do with equality and diversity…
I agree that it’s important to be able to conduct presentations nowadays, but for some children, it’s terrifying! Recently our 6 year old grandson was expected to prepare homework to deliver a presentation on the Great Fire of London (if possible using a computer!) I’m sure there’ll be plenty of parents who wouldn’t know where to start (even if they had the time or the inclination).
On the subject of working class politicians - I’d rather listen to Angela Rayner than bumbling Boris Johnson or Victorian Jacob Rees-Mogg any day!
It’s interesting that no-one mentions Scottish politicians - I love their accents, but they’re very difficult to understand sometimes.

Not every child has the confidence to speak to a large audience and I don't think it's right to force them, but they should all be tought how to speak grammatically correctly. I hope your grandson didn't find it too traumatising.

Interesting you should mention Angela Rayner, she was on the tv yesterday and said that her mother couldn't read or write and she herself had never looked at a book before she started school. She also had to have speech therapy so she has done well for herself. I don't object to people speaking in the accents that they were brought up with and nobody wants to go back to all the plummy accents of the BBC of yesteryear but surely anyone in a public speaking should at least be grammatically correct.