Who hates the NHS

Firstly, I don’t think the use of the words love and hate are useful in discussion about the NHS, but unfortunately journalists love triggering people’s emotions with them.
It is impossible to argue that all is well with the NHS, there has not been a coherent long term plan for at least a couple of decades. Decisions are made for immediate political reasons instead. A case in point was our lack of preparedness for covid, given that an in depth study (I think in 2016) gave recommendations on what measures would be essential in the event of a pandemic, but was never implemented due to costs.
We spend less per capita on health and social care than most other developed countries, but expect the NHS to be the best in the world.
I am a massive supporter of the concept of the NHS, but it needs to be given direction by health and social care experts, not politicians and the insidious privatisation must stop.

I remember good old Nye Bevan introducing free healthcare so I'm grateful. I have paid once for a private health op because I had to and know how much it cost and the following check ups.

At the moment that is not true. Medicare covers everyone over 62/65/67 (depending on age at retirement, it has gone up several times) and private Medigap insurance is available to cover the 20% of costs Medicare does not pay. Since "Obamacare" went into effect Insurance companies can not refuse coverage for any reason. Life Insurance is not usually available to people over 80, however, nor is insurance to cover nursing home costs. Medicare covers only the first 90 days in a nursing home. Coverage for care at home is woefully inadequate. There is another government program called Medicaid that will cover nursing home or sometimes home care when practically all savings have been exhausted.
Plenty of Medical mistakes are made here too, and duplications and money wasting are rife. The US is rated at the rock bottom of all the developed countries for it's medical care.

Hety58 .., why is it so that money has to be used as a sweetener . Pay them more to get a better service !! Money should not speak volumes to get a kind word or a better service ….

Just had a hip replacement on the NHS and they were wonderful. My life is transformed. However there have been times when I haven't felt that the NHS was quite so terrific eg a couple of weeks ago the physio I saw post op seemed to spend an awful lot of time examining my non operated leg despite the fact I said several times it was my right hip I had done plus he had the notes in front of him. Eventually had to say (as nicely as possible) "it was the right hip". Before my op the nurse at the clinic got my hips muddled up (which was a bit concerning! ), twice I have been waiting for appointments only to discover I had been "missed out" and once I waited months on a physio app only to discover the GP had forgotten to refer me! So the system isn't perfect and they do make some dreadful blunders but I wouldn't be without them.

Amalegra,

I just want to tell you that your post on the NHS gives us a very real account of the NHS. You are spot on in your assessment! Thank you.

Kate1949

And from a close relative who works there, less waste, expensive conferences with lunches, layers of management etc.

I totally agree, there are certain people who are simply on a gravy train. A friend came across a bunch of managers travelling 200 miles by train to London for a meeting, enjoying first class. He was not impressed. This is wholly wasteful of precious resources.
From my years as frontline staff I can tell you, it's not the nurses, midwives and health visitors etc. - those at the bedside, doing the drug rounds, dressings, birth visit or clinics - that get any perks. They're lucky to get a meal break!
The other thing which needs to stop is the ridiculously sad amount of waste and theft by patients, of anything that isn't nailed down. I worked in a hospital which was newly opened. Every cupboard in 4 postnatal wards was stocked with laundry and baby clothes. In a very short time we were struggling to find a pillow or a cot sheet. They got lifted by patients and their relatives by the bagful. This was despite the NHS stamp across the fabric. Then we got complaints for having to use paper baby nighties and sheets.
We are very fortunate to have the NHS, I admit mistakes happen, I have suffered from the result of one, but I am still alive because of a fabulous cardiology team of doctors, expert nurses, radiologists, physios and wonderful support staff. I don't do love /hate but I am so indebted to them all.

Love the idea of it
Hate the reality

I hate it and I love it. My children were all born at home with the help of lovely NHS midwives and my GP and it used to give us the service we came to expect BUT not now. I was in hospital for two weeks recently and during that time the doctors could not get a diagnosis of what was wrong with me. After discharge (still waiting for a scan which never happened) I used my insurance my old company had taken out for me. Surprise surprise, stage 3 cancer. What would have happened if I hadn't gone private? Stage 4 and then death? During my Chemo treatment for the cancer I was admitted to hospital with coronavirus and sepsis. Spent a week in hospital and on the last two days, they had no supplies of the anti-biotic that I needed!!! They hadn't been ordered..... Absolute shambles but there are still some 'proper' doctors and nurses in the NHS who are so kind and caring and efficient but there are also some who are not!!! Striking nurses and doctors - disgraceful. There that's opened up a can of worms. .

I hate it and I love. My children were all born at home with the help of lovely NHS midwives and my GP and it used to give us the service we came to expect BUT not now. I was in hospital for two weeks recently and during that time the doctors could not get a diagnosis of what was wrong with me. After discharge (still waiting for a scan which never happened) I used my insurance my old company had taken out for me. Surprise surprise, stage 3 cancer. What would have happened if I hadn't gone private? Stage 4 and then death? During my Chemo treatment for the cancer I was admitted to hospital with coronavirus and sepsis. Spent a week in hospital and on the last two days, they had no supplies of the anti-biotic that I needed!!! They hadn't been ordered..... Absolute shambles but there are still some 'proper' doctors and nurses in the NHS who are so kind and caring and efficient but there are also some who are not!!! Striking nurses and doctors - disgraceful. There that's opened up a can of worms. .

I don't hate the NHS, gave my DH 16 years life afrer his surgery for cancer, will say though even back then it was a case of not addressing what could be the cause of his illness square on for 2 years by then it had progressed. Now, having cared for him prior to being admitted to a hospice ward for pain management assessment (he never came home) the amalgamation of NHS with social care is a farce. Nothing is joined up other than department names. The only part of palliative care at home that worked was the Drs who visited twice in 2 months to check how he was doing. They at least adjusted medication. As for OT, not worth the bother, care assistants, what are they, never saw one. Even phone contact info was a laugh. Phoned the OT who had assessed for basic stuff, none of which fitted or worked. One piece of equipment for the bed was a two man job. 2 vans and drivers would be sent at 8 am and that was the only time two would be available. My DH was on such a drug regime he needed about 2 hours for one drug after another to start working so he could move, never mind get out of bed. There was no way I was going to wake him about 5 am if he was asleep. No other time could be accommodated. Equipment never fitted. Phoned OT to tell her situation. Message on system was that she was on holiday and wouldn't be available until a date in July. I was phoning early April. Long holiday for some. Had to phone 999 one morning explaining it was not a life and death situation but I could not lift my DH to sit him up to then lift him to toilet. 3 staff turned up, did what was necessary but were appalled that no care was given. They even noticed and dealt with a burn I had on my arm. I knew it should have been seen in A&E when I did it but I didn't have 3 or 4 hours spare to sit in the.hospital. The only outcome of joining services is to me that powers at be feel money will be saved. Certainly will as long as there isn't an increase in managers as I hired equipment, paid for a carer for two sessions when I had dentist appointments, managed all the medication collection and administration. Did all care for DH. I am not impressed with the supposedly joined up service. In my view a person needing care at home should have one case worker who should liaise with all necessary parts of the service. We have an NHS and Social Care Service with people who want to do a good job. We also have a huge lack of funding

Anybody who needs emergency care for serious illness or injury in the UK will need the NHS, as private hospitals don't have A&E departments (please correct me if I'm wrong). The late Prince Philip was transferred from a private hospital to an NHS one for his final illness; the King, when Prince of Wales, went to the A&E of an NHS hospital to have a fractured wrist treated; Boris Johnson was treated for Covid in an NHS hospital. It doesn't matter who you are.

The nhs saved my life on 2 occasions, I’m can’t fault them but I hate the dilatory office staff who are so po faced when speaking to them, have no coordination with each other and blame computers for errors such as 2 appointments same day 20 miles apart etc
My other bugbear is the two tier system . My elderly mother had to pay 600 to get decent hearing aids without waiting months. My daughter paid 38.00 per ear for syringing. I have to pay goodness knows what for a mouth scan as I can’t tolerate having a goey mixture in my mouth to have dentures. I can’t help this, also I have been told if I need any more dental appointments I must pay, apparently you can only have so many in a year. Why do you have to pay for stuff that should be free and the poorest get the bargain basement service.

I think we’re incredibly lucky to have the NHS. If you’re dissatisfied you can always pay privately or take out an expensive insurance scheme. Trouble is, if your condition is life threatening you’ll probably be referred back to the NHS.

I’m grateful fir it always been there when I needed it. I’ve waited a while for an ear operation but I don’t mind I can wait.

Love or hate doesn’t really come into. Finances certainly do. Medicine has seen vast improvements over the years, cost of drugs…need to be expensive sometimes to fund future research, cost of new machines, technology driven. There is an awful lot of waste though and extra layers of admin. IT waste, stationery waste, personnel. Need more at the ‘coal face’.

I think the NHS is a wonderful service. Yes we do pay for it during our working lives but its reassuring to know it's there when needed. I recently had a heart attack. Ambulance arrived within 10 minutes of me phoning. It was a 3 man crew (actually 3 ladies). The paramedic on board was brilliant and helped to reduce my anxiety with her humor. Arrived at A & E Scunthorpe Hospital. Received attention immediately, hooked up to heart monitor and received constant attention. My heart rate was reduced by a clever little trick by a doctor. Once stable I was transferred to a ward. The nurses and staff on that ward (16) were brilliant. I saw what they had to deal with and they carried out the work with a sense of pride, despite how unreasonable and abusive some patients were. They treated all of us with courtesy and respect. The food was great, always tasty and the puddings delicious. Doctors were first rate and explained exactly what was going on with my heart and related issues. They all deserve a higher rate of pay that is related to the hard and important work that they do.

I don’t hate the NHS but I sure don’t love it either!
It’s been getting worse for a very long time in all sorts of ways.
Fail to see why I should be grateful, having paid NI for many years.

Hetty58

Allsorts, the decline of the NHS is due to long term severe underfunding - not 'people coming into the country'. Think about the staff, as without them it would simply collapse. Many, perhaps most, are from abroad.

Yes, it is true that many staff come from abroad, but if you visit an A&E on a weekend night you will see the proportion of people coming in for treatment who have also recently come from abroad, some of whom resort to verbally abusing the staff so that they can be seen first. Also parents who don't speak English bringing in young children who simply have mild colds that could be seen by a GP or health visitor.
Last time we saw knife wounds and several girls so drunk that they had passed out. And not one of these patients was of UK origin. Please don't regard this as racism it's just that in this area we are flooded with recent immigrants who behave badly and expect an instant service from A&E because that is what they believe they can get in the UK, along with free housing and benefits.

deedee27

We pay less towards it than France and Germany, so we get what we pay for. The absence of a workforce plan for years has accelerated its decline. This is hand in glove with systemic underfunding and understaffing over the last 13 years. Staff are unable to work flexibly which doesn’t help.

Staff are leaving in droves post pandemic which is exacerbating the situation.

In France you have to make a contribution to the cost of your initial appointment. I'm told that is it is found that you do need treatment there is some sort of insurance scheme that refunds the initial charge.
A friend is a GP's receptionist and says that there are some older people who demand an appoinment every week but don't appear to actually have any illness.

Sueki44

The worst thing about NHS hospitals is the parking! Most have sold off the parking rights to car parks to national companies who make you pay exorbitant rates. It shouldn’t be the case that it is one of the most worrying aspects of hospital appointments: whether you can find a parking space or afford to pay for it!

Also staff at the hospitals usually have to pay the same rate to park at their place of work.

Also our (older) local GPs twice missed my husband's heart failure, which apparently had all the typical symptoms. It was eventually picked up by a more recently trained locum, who asked if we could make it to hospital on our own or if he should call an emergency ambulance. You couldn't make it up!

Pammie1

I’ve been in and out of hospital all my life due to disability from birth so I’ve seen a lot of changes. Things ran a lot better when it was largely in the hands of medical people, rather than the layers of management we have now. And I’ll probably bring a ton of criticism down on my head for saying this, but I really feel that nowadays there is a lot of demand for NHS treatment of things for which it was never intended. Cosmetic surgery for body dysmorphia, fertility treatment, gender reassignment surgery, to name but a couple.

In my experience, once you get to the real experts, there’s no better care than that provided by our NHS. The problem is the difficulty in getting to the right people before things get out of hand. My late husband was failed by our GP, who didn’t recognise the early signs of cancer. As a result he was misdiagnosed and valuable time was wasted - it wasn’t until he was admitted to hospital after collapsing, that his advanced lung cancer was diagnosed. He spent time in HDU and ITU, and the care he received was on another level entirely, but unfortunately it was too late for him by then. My own feeling is that we need to provide better training to those who are the gateway from primary to secondary care. To do that, and to raise the NHS to the world class service it deserves to be, I think we’re all going to have to be prepared to pay more.

I agree with you, the NHS should not be covering the cost of non-essential treatment such as much of that for fertility.
My daughter found that she was extremely unlikely to be able to have children after pelvic infections. However after three scans (the results having been "lost" twice) and four consultants' appointments (two of which were cancelled on the day) she was offered fertility treatment.
Fortunately she is sensible and turned it down on the grounds that it was not likely to result in pregnancy, could damage her health in the longer term and would be extremely stressful.

ordinarygirl

the NHS needs a massive overall. Too much money is wasted by
a) not being able to optout of receiving letters for the covid vaccine (contact via facebook ,the system and the telephone is not possible - I've been trying for months)
b) needing an appointment when a letter would do
c)double appointments - just incase you don't attend the first appointment
those above are the simplest to resolve.
Why do you need a nurse for a chaperone for most appointments when you are not undressing ?

bring back SEN's and nurse numbers will increase as too many are put off training as they need a degree. No degree will teach you how to interact in a sympathetic way with patients.

This all sounds very odd.
a). We never get letters about Covid, just a text from the GP telling us when a vaccination of any kind is due. If we respond by making an appointment via the link in the text we are not bothered again until the next is due. Do they have a mobile number for you?
b) Typically this would be for test results or the like and we get these on the phone from the cardiac team or the GP staff.
c). Never heard of being given a double appointment in case you don't turn up.

I've only ever been given a chaperone for undressed appointments, though there is usually a notice saying I can ask for one if I want to. Since we live in an area with a high Indian and Pakistani population I think this could sometimes be necessary.

It sounds as though your GP doesn't have a properly organised admin system. Our practice organised their own Covid communications, though I think that others relied solely on more centralised NHS systems.

Queenofhearts

I have to agree with you. I had an appointment for an MRI scan on Monday I also had one for Sunday. They were both for my legs. Didfferent consultants. I asked could they do both legs as I was going on the machine and someone could have my slot on Sunday. No they said it doesn't work like that. No one talks to each other. We can see you have 2 appointments and agreed it was one of the reasons the NHS are losing money....

I had the same issue a couple of weeks ago. Mum has breast cancer and our GP suspects spread, so ordered a head MRI with contrast and a full spinal MRI. I received two appointments for two consecutive days, and when I rang to query this, I was also told that they couldn’t both be done on the same day. Until I pointed out that she was an ambulance patient, so it would require two separate ambulance bookings for the appointments. The appointments were changed to a different day and were done with a half hour break in between. I dread to think how widespread this waste of resources actually is.