Who hates the NHS

I’m off for an MRI scan in a couple of hours. I fell badly exactly four weeks ago. My humerus is broken in several places at the shoulder joint. The break is unstable and the bones misaligned.

So far I’ve had 2 X-rays, a CT scan (17 days ago) and now this MRI. I saw an orthopaedic trauma consultant three weeks ago who told me the bad news.. Still waiting for update on CT and why a MRI is called for.

Meanwhile my poor humerus is trying to knit itself back together. The consultant only works 2 days for the NHS the rest of the time he sees his private patients. So between that and long delays in radiologists reports it could be many more weeks before a decision is made on operating.

Wonderful isn’t it? The total lack of joined up thinking,

Callistemon21

^I don't see how expressing that frustration with something that costs a chunk of money every month from everyone who works is 'ungrateful'^

Those who are retired often pay a chunk of tax every month too.
The NHS is funded from taxation, not just NI contributions.

True.

I think a big part of the NHS problems is both the fact that it has been underfunded for the past 13 years and the constant tinkering with its organisation to fit political ideology rather than to make genuine improvement to the service.

I don't know if it is different now, but when I worked in the NHS 50 years ago (and Education far more recently) if there was anything left in the departmental budget towards the financial year end there was a frantic scramble to get it spent as the surplus would just be deducted from the next year's budget. It didn't make for good forward planning for big projects.

I recall a few years ago when the NHS IT systems were hit by DOS ransom demands it transpired that much of the NHS hardware and software was years out of date. If this is still the case it's no wonder that co-ordination between departments can be very sketchy.

Perhaps someone with more recent experience of working for the NHS can update me?

I don't see how expressing that frustration with something that costs a chunk of money every month from everyone who works is 'ungrateful'

Those who are retired often pay a chunk of tax every month too.
The NHS is funded from taxation, not just NI contributions.

I believe in the principle of the NHS as a compulsory form of insurance which gives care free at the point of use. To me, that is by far the most sensible way of dealing with what is, after all, a lottery. We are all born, we will all die. Both of those are risky, and in between there are few of us who never get ill, and some illness is cheaper and easier to cure than others. Also, without vaccinations and proper care for those with infections everyone is at risk from other people.

I have no problem at all with the fact that some people will need a lot of very expensive treatment whilst others are lucky enough to need very little. That's the nature of insurance. I do think we maybe need to streamline which services are available on the NHS, so things like cosmetic surgery should maybe be rationed, although I believe it already is.

I absolutely do not think that there should be any means-testing of things like GP appointments or other services. Either everyone should pay or nobody, or unfairness would be built into a system which is fundamental to health and wellbeing. If people want to pay (and there are always people saying that they do), maybe there could be a voluntary (and anonymous) way of doing so that has no bearing on the treatment that people are given.

I have no issue with the fact that the training of medical students is heavily subsidised, and would be happy with that going much further, so that more people from less well-off backgrounds have a chance to train. Hand in hand with that, however, should be a commitment to their staying in the NHS after training, whether that is by asking private employers to pay a levy for taking on NHS trained staff or by expecting those staff to repay the subsidies themselves if they choose to take their expertise elsewhere. I know that is a controversial point of view, but it is mine.

I don't know enough about admin or the waste that we keep hearing is endemic, but maybe there should be more stringent audits to ensure efficiency. Having said that, putting in rules about what can be spent and how systems have to work can be counter-productive, as it prevents flexibility and intelligent management. I can't help thinking that better communication and co-operation between departments would be better for patients and more economical too. As people have said, getting bloods, X rays and so on done separately and often out of synch with consultant appointments can't possibly be the best use of resources (of the NHS itself, or of workplaces that have staff taking time off for several appointments where one would do), and I really don't understand why one doctor can't see the results of tests arranged by another.

As for the OP - I don't think I have ever come across hate for the NHS. Frustration, yes, but as I said upthread, I don't see how expressing that frustration with something that costs a chunk of money every month from everyone who works is 'ungrateful'.

I think love/hate are rather too strong and extreme words to use for people's relationships with the NHS.

We all have reason to be very grateful to the treatment we have received over the years but I'm sure most of us can recount times when we've been frustrated and upset by mistakes, upset by individual staff members and have met NHS staff who feel frustration at some of the bureaucracy that detracts from them doing their best for the patients they care for.

There would be no need for such people as the Putting It Right Team, the Concerns Team if all the administration was efficient and competent, if there was a co-ordinated computer system and a joined-up system.

I think you need to read the results of the survey:
www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/public-satisfaction-nhs-and-social-care-2022

I’ve only skimmed it but one of the main issues seems to be wait times for GP and hospital appointments.

My own recent experience is good, but I feel pastoral care is missing, probably due to staff shortages.

Ziplok

No, I don’t hate it. However, I do wish the various departments worked more closely together, co-ordinated and applied common sense. My DH has an appointment mid July for a scan which his consultant is meant to discuss it’s result with him. The consultants appointment is in the morning, the scan is in the afternoon - on the same day! Needless to say, DH will be contacting the hospital on Monday to get this sorted out, but honestly, talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing…

If this was the department I work in this would be the scenario:

The follow-up appointment with the consultant would be requested at the end of the original appointment. The appointments team would arrange this within 24 hours usually. The scan would also be requested at that time. No-one would know exactly when the scan would take place and then be reported (this can take weeks sometimes) but the consultant would try and guess what a good time lapse would be. Not a bad guess in the first place really but very easily remedied as you say by you phoning to push the consultant appointment back a bit.

Also whoever sent the scan appointment wouldn’t be thinking about when the next consultant appointment was. It doesn’t matter to them - they just work through the scans in order of request by urgency or date. They wouldn’t have access to other appointment information (this is all in the trust I work for so maybe not relevant to you) but might give you a picture of the timetable.

The systems are very old fashioned. I am not an It person but even I can see simple fixes that would allow systems to blend together better. Would all take funding that isn’t available sadly.

I've only ever had excellent care from the NHS.. the last time being during the pandemic when I was admitted with kidney stones. Despite being frantically busy I was treated with such kindness I am eternally grateful... next week I will be having a tooth extracted by the NHS dentists for free.. I think they all valiantly struggle on despite the lack of resources and staff and I love them for that

In my experience the NHS have been brilliant with physical health but very poor with mental health. I have 2 friends in their eighties who are receiving excellent care for serious heart conditions and DH owes his life to brilliant neurosurgeons. However ,again in my experience, it seems that they want to discharge patients with serious psychotic conditions too soon into ‘care in the community’ which just isn’t there.

Somehow it needs adjusting for modern life and all the extraordinary life saving stuff that can be done now.
Surely getting everything done at one time would help and save money going backwards and forwards for x rays, blood test, other tests all separately makes no sense.
DS wouldn't be here today without the NHS

The NHS as an institution has a warm place in my heart. However, individual members can sometimes be incompetent resulting in unnecessary suffering. This has been my experience and it tends to take a bit of the shine off my admiration in general.

Up and down for me. The family have had excellent treatment at times, but, at other times, it's been breathtakingly bad.

Staff vary, as in all walks of live - they are not all angels.

I do think it needs reform now though - due to a variety of reasons, it's not performing well at the moment, despite the billions poured in to it.

I think you can only speak as you find and agree with several of the previous comments about the poor communication between departments.

My DH has an ongoing problem and he is back in hospital yet again. The service has been disgusting even the Orthopedic Consultant said the NHS had let DH down to which we immediately agreed.

Hate is a strong word, but I would never clap for them again.

Kuensberg was reporting the results of research carried out by the King's Fund, according to which the public gave the NHS its worst rating since records began 40 years ago. Only 29% of those surveyed said they were satisfied with the NHS. However, 90% still agreed that the service should be free and available to everyone. I feel that where quality and availability of NHS service is concerned, it's a bit of a postcode lottery. In the case of DH and I, we're among the lucky ones, and are happy with what we've experienced here on Tyneside. It's no exaggeration to say that neither of us would be here today without it. Yes, it's badly underfunded and under-resourced, and I'd gladly pay more tax if I could be assured that it would go directly into NHS coffers.

Allsorts, the decline of the NHS is due to long term severe underfunding - not 'people coming into the country'. Think about the staff, as without them it would simply collapse. Many, perhaps most, are from abroad.

What Callistemon said.

I don't think anyone's could hate the NHS, the waits are frustrating and in cases life threatening, but there are so many demands now compared to when it began. I have every reason to be grateful to the strength and caring I have received.How many new diseases we have,so many people coming into the country who have not paid in but all need treatment. I can't see it surviving, the demands to great.. We will eventually have a two tier system, there is no other way, it is very sad. All around us education, health, who gets see a doctor now, is crumbling. In lots of areas it's a post code lottery. Glad I am the age I am, sorry for my grandchildren though.

I’d love it if we had it here! You can go bankrupt getting sick.

And from a close relative who works there, less waste, expensive conferences with lunches, layers of management etc.

The NHS isn't perfect but it's darned good. We take for granted that we can have everything from babies being born to life saving surgery and it's free.
It needs more investment, more staff, and a good shake up, but we are still lucky to have it.

Hetty58

Kate1949, why not? It's a service that we pay for, after all. Why do people think that we have to be grateful

Yes, we do pay.

We're grateful to many of the caring staff but not all are kind, caring and infallible as they are human beings with faults like the rest of us.

Imo we should pay more and then we could expect a world-class service.

Sorry to hear of your experiences Hetty. We have only had positive experiences of the NHS and have people here that we wouldn't have without them. Where else can we turn when lives are in the balance?

Casdon

People are fallible the world over, and staff working in the NHS are too. When it’s our life, or the life of one of our family it’s very difficult to accept that people make mistakes. I think that is the core of the love/hate relationship.

Indeed.

Doctors are not infallible. We wish they were. There can be bad mistakes or sometimes mistakes or inefficiency due to lack of resourcing. There can be very good or not so good practitioners.

It's right to complain ignore that things can be made better, draw attention to things tha need not have gone wrong, but imo there isn't enough praise and gratitude to match. How many of us have so much to be thankful for.

They misdiagnosed my late father, late husband - and late aunt. They put my life in danger, twice. It's no wonder I have no trust in them.