Missing Titanic Submarine

Try telling that to racing drivers, test pilots, astronauts, mountaineers, arctic explorers. How boring and sterile life would be without them.

Just to add there’s no proof yet that there was anything faulty with the craft. James Cameron went to the wreck 30 times and made an awful lot of money from the resulting film. The owners of OceanGate hadn’t even made a profit yet.

I see a lot of unpleasantness on here which has begun very quickly now these men are dead and from some who were feigning concern whilst there fate was unknown.

tickingbird

Germanshepherdsmum

Heroism? Those who tried to rescue them were the heroes

What heroism was displayed in the rescue attempt? People were on ships operating remote control vehicles. Nobody risked their life in any way..

Well said, zero lives were put at risk during the rescue attempts - so, whilst admirable, its hardly heroic.

But racing drivers, astronauts, arctic explorers and test drivers have an in depth knowledge of the activity they’re taking part in. Most of the people in Titan were just people paying to go on a trip to the bottom of the ocean. And James Cameron said he would never have visited the wreck in Titan which he believed to be unsafe.

So wrong MayBee. Three of them were world leaders in the field. The only ones that weren’t recognised experts were the father and son.

World renowned experts are now querying the sanity of it, written evidence of concerns beforehand, which were ignored apparently, there will have to be an inquiry, dare say such missions will be banned anyway now.

tickingbird

So wrong MayBee. Three of them were world leaders in the field. The only ones that weren’t recognised experts were the father and son.

They weren’t engineers though, with the possible exception of the man who owned the company and his engineering knowledge seemed to include an attitude of ignoring safety regulations.

tickingbird you are confusing people who move the world forward with their efforts, using their brains and courage to make discoveries and develop technology that directly and indirectly benefits us all.

These men were tourists out for a ride for a limited view through a tiny porthole of a wreck that can be viewed far better in safety in the films taken by remotely operated vehicles.

Nothing about this exploit moved science forward one jot.

I wasn’t being callous or unfeeling tickingbird and how you can equate it with plane travel or a car accident is beyond me May I also say I was not feigning concern I said right at the start of this thread that I thought it was a foolhardy thing to do

I feel extremely sorry for the families left behind I feel great compassion for the young boy that died when he actually is reported as not wanting to go I am certainly NOT a callous person in any way

I totally echo what Monica has said (much better put than me) they weren’t explorers they were thrill seekers they were warned by others that there were concerns about the submersible , they signed more than one disclaimer knowing how dangerous it was and it’s very unfortunate that all the people giving these warnings were not heeded

It’s sad for everyone connected but their chose their destiny for a brief window of hedonism The tragedy is they took a young boy, before he has even started in life, with them.

Allsorts
As it stands there is no statutory body to ban this industry

How can the man, aged 77, and recognised as the foremost authority on Titanic be accused of being a thrill seeker?

Ross Kemp was going to make a documentary last year on the Titanic including taking a trip in the Titan. When his production company investigated they had concerns about the safety of the submersible and decided not to proceed.

Ocean Gate would not submit the Titan for safety tests and it had no certificates as other responsible submersible have. They got away with it as it was in international waters. Actually they didn’t get away with it finally. Those who travelled on it previously are thanking their lucky stars to be alive. The materials used in its construction were unstable and likely to deteriorate over time.

One of them was an explorer.
I hope there isnt a knee jerk reaction. It sounds as if this company disregarded concerns and were negligent but we rely on people (often very rich) to take risks to make progress. Often those projects are vanity projects.

I’m as ever, a bit conflicted here. It’s clear this submersive was not considered safe by many experts. Having signed risk waivers including possible death, passengers made a choice.
The 19 year old seems to have been unenthusiastic but went ahead because he loved his father. They paid with their lives. I don’t see them as thrill seekers, the history of the Titanic fascinates many people. We can’t prevent people becoming fascinated nor should we want to.

These kind of trips to the Titanic are frequent. No doubt the safety of the subs used is now in sharp focus.

Here is a brief article (CNBC News) that explains in layman's terms why the hull material was under scrutiny for some time prior to this incident. My OH who was a marine engineer (though doesn't claim extensive knowledge but did work on ships' hulls) believes that ultimately, it will prove to be the cause of the disaster.

It has to be remembered that these dives were still in the experimental stage, possibly why all the waivers had to be signed by the prospective passengers who were, in effect, part of the experiment.

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/carbon-fiber-one-titan-submersibles-experimental-materials-comes-scrut-rcna90856

M0nica

tickingbird you are confusing people who move the world forward with their efforts, using their brains and courage to make discoveries and develop technology that directly and indirectly benefits us all.

These men were tourists out for a ride for a limited view through a tiny porthole of a wreck that can be viewed far better in safety in the films taken by remotely operated vehicles.

Nothing about this exploit moved science forward one jot.

No, that's right.

We know what happened with the ship, why it happened, how it happened, and when it happened. It's now a mass grave site.

It's very sad what happened to these Titanic "tourists" but it was pointless.

They've lost their lives, left loved ones grieving and caused endless aggravation trying to rescue them. 🙁

That's quite a complex issue though isnt it. My family watch motor sport, it is quite dangerous, and could be considered pointless. In the development of activities such as F1 there were safety issues which nowadays wouldn't be allowed.

M0nica

tickingbird you are confusing people who move the world forward with their efforts, using their brains and courage to make discoveries and develop technology that directly and indirectly benefits us all.

These men were tourists out for a ride for a limited view through a tiny porthole of a wreck that can be viewed far better in safety in the films taken by remotely operated vehicles.

Nothing about this exploit moved science forward one jot.

Science may be forwarded in some way by this tragedy. Improvement of materials used and a further understanding of what is required at such depths if an occasion occurred when it was necessary to descend to such a level and I’m not talking about tourism.
Quite a few everyday items we use have come about through something like space travel and its problems for example.
Apparently my gas fire and fake coals are one!

M0nica

Nowadays, I think most reporting of human tragedies like this is far less intrusive and voyeuristic than it was in the past.

What makes you think that M0nica? Just look at the Diana saga…

Galaxy

That's quite a complex issue though isnt it. My family watch motor sport, it is quite dangerous, and could be considered pointless. In the development of activities such as F1 there were safety issues which nowadays wouldn't be allowed.

I’ve been thinking along similar lines. My husband admired the polar explorers and did one of those Antarctic cruises that may threaten the area
I rode horses till my early 60’s when arthritis got in the way. I had 5 days on hospital after a bad fall in my twenties. I was riding a young horse known to be ‘a bit of a challenge”. I’ve sat in A and E with my children after they fell off a wall, a horse or in one case the gym teacher suspected a fractured ankle and all my 14 year old had done was leap in the air to cheer her team on. I realise this may sound superficial in comparison with explorers but there is something about zest for life and curiosity we need not to lose in our concern to make life as safe as possible

Monica

These men were tourists out for a ride for a limited view through a tiny porthole of a wreck that can be viewed far better in safety in the films taken by remotely operated vehicles

Patently untrue and you really don’t know enough to make such a sweeping statement.

The distruction of the Titan needs a proper inquiry with evidence from whatever can be recovered from the seabed and evidence under oath from those with direct knowledge of its design and testing. Most of what is being said now is pure speculation feeding into media coverage exploiting people's feelings. Pontifications by former Prime Ministers can safely be ignored.

Galaxy

That's quite a complex issue though isnt it. My family watch motor sport, it is quite dangerous, and could be considered pointless. In the development of activities such as F1 there were safety issues which nowadays wouldn't be allowed.

My OH was on the 79 Fastnet race where 18 people died. Everyone who sails those races knows the risks.
He now builds and races hot rods at SantaPod.
This is one he built and raced. He now has a faster one.
You won’t stop people who take risks.

www.eurodragstereventcoverage.com/santapod/live/2019dragstalgia/pitnotes/picture.asp?picture=picl05.jpg

MerylStreep

Galaxy

That's quite a complex issue though isnt it. My family watch motor sport, it is quite dangerous, and could be considered pointless. In the development of activities such as F1 there were safety issues which nowadays wouldn't be allowed.

My OH was on the 79 Fastnet race where 18 people died. Everyone who sails those races knows the risks.
He now builds and races hot rods at SantaPod.
This is one he built and raced. He now has a faster one.
You won’t stop people who take risks.

www.eurodragstereventcoverage.com/santapod/live/2019dragstalgia/pitnotes/picture.asp?picture=picl05.jpg

But would he take those risks in a vehicle that someone else had made? The point I’ve tried to make is that eg astronauts are knowledgeable about what they’re doing: know the risks and I’m pretty sure they know what to do if there’s a problem. The people in Titan were totally dependent on the safety of what they were in and had no control over their fate other than deciding not to go.

MayBee70

MerylStreep

Galaxy

That's quite a complex issue though isnt it. My family watch motor sport, it is quite dangerous, and could be considered pointless. In the development of activities such as F1 there were safety issues which nowadays wouldn't be allowed.

My OH was on the 79 Fastnet race where 18 people died. Everyone who sails those races knows the risks.
He now builds and races hot rods at SantaPod.
This is one he built and raced. He now has a faster one.
You won’t stop people who take risks.

www.eurodragstereventcoverage.com/santapod/live/2019dragstalgia/pitnotes/picture.asp?picture=picl05.jpg

But would he take those risks in a vehicle that someone else had made? The point I’ve tried to make is that eg astronauts are knowledgeable about what they’re doing: know the risks and I’m pretty sure they know what to do if there’s a problem. The people in Titan were totally dependent on the safety of what they were in and had no control over their fate other than deciding not to go.

But would he take those risks in a vehicle that someone else had made? The point I’ve tried to make is that eg astronauts are knowledgeable about what they’re doing: know the risks and I’m pretty sure they know what to do if there’s a problem. The people in Titan were totally dependent on the safety of what they were in and had no control over their fate other than deciding not to go.

A good point (butting in here). However, surely they were aware of the CEO's somewhat insouciant attitude towards safety?

It depends how good a salesman he was, I guess,