Can a woman have a penis?

Galaxy

Right wing women are still women I know that's tricky.
It's possible to worry about numerous things at once. I was thinking earlier about the damage that seems to be done to children who are exposed to fame at an early age, I was also vaguely worrying about what time B and Q opens in the morning.

But it isn't just worrying. It is recognising the parallels which are common to both restrictive movements. The condemnation of those who are different. The establishment of rules which say what is normal and therefore what is permissible.
It is far more concerning than just the trans issue. There are things happening which are far more damaging for women.

after several pages of stripping them of any dignity or respect at all now whose catastrophising .

Yes those are threats to women's liberties Glorianny as are the threats that have been talked about on this thread.

Right wing women are still women I know that's tricky.
It's possible to worry about numerous things at once. I was thinking earlier about the damage that seems to be done to children who are exposed to fame at an early age, I was also vaguely worrying about what time B and Q opens in the morning.

Dickens

Smileless2012

And it's been a case for a long time of oh trans people exist? Cool... cool... What's for dinner? until TRA's started bullying and intimidating women.

Until men wanted to be incarcerated in women's prisons despite being imprisoned for crimes against them. Until men wanted to compete against women in sport etc etc etc., and women who quite rightly object to the aforementioned, being accused of being transphobic and not 'real' feminists.

Examples of catastrophising would be good, or is this just another example of accusations that cannot be substantiated?

Otherwise known as twisting Galaxy.

When men held positions of power in all aspects of 'life' in society, as they did until the suffragettes started their movement to demand a seat in those positions which governed their lives; when women began to agitate via 'women's lib' for equality at work, under the Law - to insist that in all aspects of our constitutional and cultural life, their voice was heard, and respected, there were men who were entirely opposed to the idea. They had defined womanhood to suit their own needs and to maintain their upper hand, their power. We know that some felt threatened by intelligent women - the 'blue stocking' women who challenged them. There is that drive in men to dominate - they gave us examples of it by referring us to the animal kingdom, told us it was 'natural' for men to lead; to flit from female to female to inseminate as many as possible - it was a natural 'instinct' and we were behaving unnaturally attempting to alter 'nature'. They told us we were the nurturers and our 'place' was in the home as their subordinate partners, and that we shouldn't be clamouring to compete with them because we weren't physically or mentally 'built' for it. Some were (and still are) so fiercely opposed to feminism because not so deep-down, they didn't really like women... they 'fancied' them and wanted to have sex with them, but they didn't actually like them because they saw them as a threat to their dominance. Some were so insecure and weak mentally and emotionally - so inadequate, that they blamed women for their own failures... in short, they hated them - they hated us because we highlighted their insufficiency. The more we were successful in 'feminising' society, the more they hated us. They were (and are) the misogynists who sometimes raped and murdered women because it was the only way they could assert their diminishing power. We, feminists, struck at the very heart of their 'being', their worth, and the only way they could deal with it was through violence.
We - women - are a dichotomy - not only can we nurture, rear and nourish babies, take care of the family - we can, at the same time, hold positions of power and we can do things that men believed only they could do. We can even join them in battle and fight in wars, we can run and rule countries, make 'boardroom' decisions, drive airplanes, trucks. And still go home and cook meals for the children, load-up the washing machine and keep the family ticking over doing all the mundane necessities that keep the families functioning.

So what's a poor man to do when faced with such overwhelming evidence that women are pretty marvellous creatures who can not only fulfil their own 'natural' roles - but can in fact also lead the herd!

I believe that some trans women, those that insist on retaining their male genitalia, their beards - their 'maleness'... the 'loud mouths' who shout and threaten violence against 'TERFS' - the activists, are nothing more than misogynists who have infiltrated the feminist movement in order to re-define womanhood and lessen its power by doing so. I don't believe for one minute that they identify as women, or with them. They are, in fact, exhibiting the very violence that is often associated with men who hate women.

They are not the men who suffer body dysmorphia, who genuinely identify with and as women - those we don't hear from who just go about their daily lives trying to be their real selves.

It won't go down well, but no-one will convince me that the afore-mentioned men who are determined to dominate the gender identity debate and force their own brand on it are anything other than misogynists who, basically, hate women. They are trying to beat us at our own game by re-conceptualising women and womanhood.

I've made some assumptions here - but I believe them to be true. And now I'm going to run for cover.

Well you could start by recognising that there were women who thought we shouldn't have the vote. That there are still women who think we should stay home and mind the kids. That right wing christianity is on the rise and they will seriously damage women's freedoms.
I'm far more worried about the anti-abortionists, the traditional values right wing evangelists on the rise in the US than I am about transwomen.
The potential Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis has said
Biden has allowed woke ideology to drive his agenda. We will never surrender to the woke mob and we will leave woke ideology in the dustbin of history
Alongside opposing abortion after 6weeks under any circumstance..
There's the real threat to women's liberties.

I consider a woman to be someone who was intended to have a womb. Womb-an.
That said if someone wishes they had been born a woman and they’re not making that wish a problem for anyone else, then I don’t want to get involved

I’m definitely a BOF.

That doesn’t mean, as some imply, that I don’t care about the needs of males, whether or not they are TIM.
But people with XY chromosomes, whether or not they have had a male, genitalia, removed, are male.
For those who have gone out of their way to demonstrate that they wish to be women, I have the deepest sympathy.
However I despise those who see claiming to be a ‘woman’ as a way to validate their cheating or claiming the rights of natal females to safe spaces and to cause harm or distress to females.

In any way that should say

0 ways

Yell into the echo chamber and purge the sensible middle ground because echo echo ECHO

I had egg on toast, I enjoyed it

Meanwhile sensible people are finding solutions

All the extremists on either side do is shout about stuff without making any logical sense or actually improving matters in my way

And the sensible moderate just get grief because we think trans people are valid and we can coexist happily

Now we will have a load of comments saying "of course trans people are valid" after several pages of stripping them of any dignity or respect at all

VioletSky

It's the constant need to catastrophise I don't understand

The rest of us are just like "oh trans people exist? Cool... Cool... What's for dinner?

Agree. Thread after thread. Same old arguments.

Bathrooms.
Changing rooms.
DNA.
Penis/vagina/vulva.
TRA/TERF

Not that I'm saying the discussions don't have value, but nothing changes.

Please can I be a BOF too?

MayBee70
Having said that I can’t pretend that, if I was in a public toilet on my own and someone came in who looked very much like a man, I wouldn’t be frightened.
It’s not just the looking like a man, it’s the behaving like one.
So, not just having a beard, or being big, or muscular or deep voiced, or even appearing in a dress and make up, but acting like a man.
I was assured by trisher, a long time ago, that TIM have been using female toilets for a long time. She may well have been right, and they possibly still are but they would not have gone out of their way to make it obvious that they were men pretending to be women in order to access female only spaces, like some TIM today.

No need to run for cover Dickens.

I’m totally confused by it. I do realise that I didn’t understand how many people do suffer from body dysmorphia. I knew that hospitals have to decide on a babies sex when it’s born and sometimes they get it wrong.And I do want to try to understand what it’s like for people that feel they’re in the wrong body. Having said that I can’t pretend that, if I was in a public toilet on my own and someone came in who looked very much like a man, I wouldn’t be frightened.

Smileless2012

And it's been a case for a long time of oh trans people exist? Cool... cool... What's for dinner? until TRA's started bullying and intimidating women.

Until men wanted to be incarcerated in women's prisons despite being imprisoned for crimes against them. Until men wanted to compete against women in sport etc etc etc., and women who quite rightly object to the aforementioned, being accused of being transphobic and not 'real' feminists.

Examples of catastrophising would be good, or is this just another example of accusations that cannot be substantiated?

Otherwise known as twisting Galaxy.

When men held positions of power in all aspects of 'life' in society, as they did until the suffragettes started their movement to demand a seat in those positions which governed their lives; when women began to agitate via 'women's lib' for equality at work, under the Law - to insist that in all aspects of our constitutional and cultural life, their voice was heard, and respected, there were men who were entirely opposed to the idea. They had defined womanhood to suit their own needs and to maintain their upper hand, their power. We know that some felt threatened by intelligent women - the 'blue stocking' women who challenged them. There is that drive in men to dominate - they gave us examples of it by referring us to the animal kingdom, told us it was 'natural' for men to lead; to flit from female to female to inseminate as many as possible - it was a natural 'instinct' and we were behaving unnaturally attempting to alter 'nature'. They told us we were the nurturers and our 'place' was in the home as their subordinate partners, and that we shouldn't be clamouring to compete with them because we weren't physically or mentally 'built' for it. Some were (and still are) so fiercely opposed to feminism because not so deep-down, they didn't really like women... they 'fancied' them and wanted to have sex with them, but they didn't actually like them because they saw them as a threat to their dominance. Some were so insecure and weak mentally and emotionally - so inadequate, that they blamed women for their own failures... in short, they hated them - they hated us because we highlighted their insufficiency. The more we were successful in 'feminising' society, the more they hated us. They were (and are) the misogynists who sometimes raped and murdered women because it was the only way they could assert their diminishing power. We, feminists, struck at the very heart of their 'being', their worth, and the only way they could deal with it was through violence.
We - women - are a dichotomy - not only can we nurture, rear and nourish babies, take care of the family - we can, at the same time, hold positions of power and we can do things that men believed only they could do. We can even join them in battle and fight in wars, we can run and rule countries, make 'boardroom' decisions, drive airplanes, trucks. And still go home and cook meals for the children, load-up the washing machine and keep the family ticking over doing all the mundane necessities that keep the families functioning.

So what's a poor man to do when faced with such overwhelming evidence that women are pretty marvellous creatures who can not only fulfil their own 'natural' roles - but can in fact also lead the herd!

I believe that some trans women, those that insist on retaining their male genitalia, their beards - their 'maleness'... the 'loud mouths' who shout and threaten violence against 'TERFS' - the activists, are nothing more than misogynists who have infiltrated the feminist movement in order to re-define womanhood and lessen its power by doing so. I don't believe for one minute that they identify as women, or with them. They are, in fact, exhibiting the very violence that is often associated with men who hate women.

They are not the men who suffer body dysmorphia, who genuinely identify with and as women - those we don't hear from who just go about their daily lives trying to be their real selves.

It won't go down well, but no-one will convince me that the afore-mentioned men who are determined to dominate the gender identity debate and force their own brand on it are anything other than misogynists who, basically, hate women. They are trying to beat us at our own game by re-conceptualising women and womanhood.

I've made some assumptions here - but I believe them to be true. And now I'm going to run for cover.

I’ve just read a book and apparently in the frontier west of America young boys were hired to dress and dance as women in bars because their were so few women living there

I may have read the same (excellent) novel. I wonder though, whether the lives of those boys mirrored that of ‘cabin boys’ on the ships, who were often sexualised by the men they served.

I wish these TRA's and their supporters would jog on.

I'm not having a catastrophe...I just don't want biological men invading certain personal biological female spaces.

Other than that, they can jog on and have a nice life.🙄

It certainly looks that way.

It is twisting, and it always happens. It's in the script, isn't it?

And it's been a case for a long time of oh trans people exist? Cool... cool... What's for dinner? until TRA's started bullying and intimidating women.

Until men wanted to be incarcerated in women's prisons despite being imprisoned for crimes against them. Until men wanted to compete against women in sport etc etc etc., and women who quite rightly object to the aforementioned, being accused of being transphobic and not 'real' feminists.

Examples of catastrophising would be good, or is this just another example of accusations that cannot be substantiated?

Otherwise known as twisting Galaxy.

It's the constant need to say things that reflect nothing that anyone has said. I think everyone is aware that trans people exist.

Doodledog I think that we are back to clique v coven
See threads passim

Who is 'constantly catastrophising'? Please link me up, as I've seen nothing of the kind.

Also, who are 'the rest of us', please?

It's the constant need to catastrophise I don't understand

The rest of us are just like "oh trans people exist? Cool... Cool... What's for dinner?

I don't know when it all got so complicated. As a young woman, I campaigned for women to have equal rights in work and the home - the original feminism.

Who thought it would end up like this, as it feels almost misogynist.

Biological men, and their cheerleaders, seem to be sending our rights in the opposite direction.🙁